Vice President Big Dog?

I hesitate to mention this because there’s no way on earth that any presidential candidate would consider Bill Clinton as a running mate. It’s a fanciful idea that’s never going to happen.

But that doesn’t mean we can’t have a little fun mulling it over. The subject came up yesterday in comments, and coincidentally, was raised by law professor Brian E. Gray in an LA Times op-ed today.

The 24th Amendment, adopted in reaction to Franklin Roosevelt’s 1944 election to a fourth term, declares that “no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice.” Although it was not the focus of the amendment, it is notable that the amendment does not preclude a former two-term president (such as Clinton) from serving as vice president. Nor does it preclude a former two-term president’s succession to the presidency for all or part of a third term.

It might seem that the 12th Amendment’s dictum that “no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President” also ought to doom Clinton’s chances — but no again: He is ineligible for election to a third term, but he is constitutionally eligible to succeed to the presidency after election to the vice presidency.

Gray concedes that Bill couldn’t be Hillary’s running mate, because they’re residents of the same state, but he nevertheless concludes, “That leaves only one alternative. You heard it here first, Democrats: Obama-(Bill) Clinton 2008!”

If the argument sounds vaguely familiar, it’s because it came up during the last presidential campaign, too. In February 2004, the day John Edwards ended his bid, NYU law professor Stephen Gillers recommended that John Kerry name Bill Clinton as his running mate.

Putting aside the improbability of all this, if this notion is going to be bandied about, it’s probably worth taking a moment to wade into the weeds a bit.

The 22nd Amendment says, “No person shall be elected to the office of the president more than twice.” Under Gray’s (and Gillers’) idea, Clinton could be a VP, however, because he wouldn’t be running for president.

But then there’s the 12th Amendment, which says, “[N]o person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”

So, if Clinton is ineligible for the presidency under the 22nd, then he’s ineligible for the vice presidency under the 12th, right? Well, probably.

The 12th Amendment, in context, is directed at the criterion for a president’s eligibility laid out in Article II — natural born citizen, 35-years-old, and a 14-year resident within the United States. When the amendment says no one who’s “ineligible” for the presidency can be the vice president, it was speaking specifically to these qualifications.

The 22nd Amendment, meanwhile, enshrined the notion of a “two-term tradition” into the Constitution, following FDR’s success in winning four times. It does not address, or at a minimum, was not intended to address, presidential eligibility.

I would argue that it nevertheless added a fourth condition to a prospective president’s qualifications. Who’s eligible to be president? 35-year-old, natural-born citizens, who have lived in the U.S. for at least 14 years, and haven’t already served two terms as president. That may not have been the point of the amendment, but I’d argue that was the unintended result.

Obviously, not everyone sees it that way. Gray and Gillers believe Clinton is ineligible to be elected president, because he was already served two terms, but he’s still eligible to serve as president. Three years ago, Eugene Volokh contacted Gillers directly to ask him to respond to the 12th Amendment concerns. Gillers explained:

Under the later 22nd Am., Clinton is only constitutionally unable to be “elected” president. He is not ineligible to be president for these Article 2 reasons. If the drafters of the amendment wanted to block succession as a path to the presidency, they could have added the words “or vice-president” to the 22nd Am. or used some other exclusionary language.

I’m unconvinced. To accept the Gray/Gillers argument, one has to see a greater difference between “eligible” and “electable” than I do. In fact, one of Volokh’s readers discovered that, under a 1913 Webster’s dictionary definition, “eligible” means being “legally qualified to be elected and to hold office.”

No, none of this matters in a practical sense. Yes, this is just intended as a thought experiment. But it’s kind of fun to consider, isn’t it?

Yeah, we need another round of a guy who pushes for stuff like NAFTA and the Telecommunications act of 1996.

Not.

  • No thanks: I’ve had enough of the Clinton and the Bush families to last me a couple of lifetimes.

    But here’s another one: Fred Thompson’s lackluster fundraising and continuing campaign re-orgs have led to chatter about – wait for it – Jeb Bush to assume the White Knight candidacy for the Repubs. Newt would be so bitter.

  • I don’t know. I think his talents would be wasted as Veep. There are many hotspots that could use his diplomatic touch. I’d rather keep his hands free. Unless of course, we’re talkin the super exclusive, you can’t touch me, neener neener 4rth branch that Cheney claims for himself. Then, he’d be a great choice.

  • Anybody but me had enough of the Bush and Clinton dynasties? Surely there are other (more) qualified candidates out there, willing to do the people’s work by working FOR THE “PEOPLE”.

  • The only opinions that matter are those of 9 justices on the Supreme Court and there is no way in hell they would rule in a way that allows Bill Clinton to be Vice President.

  • I tend to view this in much the same light as I do the GOP’s seeming desperation for another Reagan, although in the case of the Democrats, it seems for some people, the “another Clinton” they want is Bill, not Hill.

    But really, this is not 1992, and having Bill Clinton in any office in the West Wing will not magically transport us back to better times. He had his time, time has moved on, and we need to do the same. The future is not in the past, even if the lessons we need to move forward with success are.

  • Being from the same state certainly didn’t hurt Bush and Cheney back in 2000

  • Being from the same state certainly didn’t hurt Bush and Cheney back in 2000

    Cheney is from Wyoming.

  • I’m wondering whether the people that push these sort of things are actually angling for another D loss in ’08. Not only would bringing back Clinton be a wonderful point for the right-wing base to rally against, but it seems that the law is ambiguous enough that any attempts at discussing national policy would be drowned out in the MSM by feverish discussions of the legality of Clinton’s nomination.

    Aren’t we trying to move away from Clinton’s ‘centrist-driven’ policies, anyway? I personally liked him as a president, but don’t forget that we’ve been in a Congressional minority for a decade – and that all started under Clinton’s watch. I don’t see the D’s benefiting from a reconnection to that lukewarm, “let’s make everyone happy,” triangulation.

    Ethel-to-Tilly wrote: “Being from the same state certainly didn’t hurt Bush and Cheney back in 2000”

    Is that the state of delusion, confusion, or denial? 🙂

  • Nice. Looks like the UC Hastings professor reads this blog and stumbled onto Wahoo’s comments!

  • Maybe it would be fun if there was some reason why we would WANT to see Bill Clinton as VP.

    I don’t see it.

  • Bush and Cheney both lived in Texas at the time Cheney selected himself as Bush’s running mate, but Cheney maintained a residence in Wyoming, and had also represented Wyoming in the House, so it was no difficulty to make that his official residence. The Clintons could do the same thing, by moving Bill back to Arkansas, essentially decarpetbagging. However, it isn’t technically true that the fact that they live in the same state precludes them from running together. They could run on the same ticket, but New York’s electors could only vote for one of them. It’s possible that there would be an electoral margin so great that this wouldn’t matter, but even there weren’t, the NY electors would just vote en masse for a random third person (Al Gore, say), and the election of Vice President would be thrown to the Democratically-controlled Senate, which would presumably go with the vice president of the president’s choosing.

    “The only opinions that matter are those of 9 justices on the Supreme Court and there is no way in hell they would rule in a way that allows Bill Clinton to be Vice President. ”

    I believe controversies over the election of the Vice President are decided in the Senate. If the electoral college votes for a candidate who the Senate believes to be ineligible, they can refuse to certify the votes, and select a VP themselves.

    There’s also a third point to consider.The 22nd Amendment says that a person can only serve two full terms of their own plus two years of someone else’s term. If Bill Clinton (or George W. Bush, for that matter) were deemed eligible to hold the Vice Presidency by the Senate, but then the president they were serving under died with more than two years left in his or her term, they could only serve two more years, at which point the presidency would fall to either the vice president they chose for themselves under the 25th, or the Speaker of the House if they let the position lie vacant.

  • Bloomberg/Clinton ’08

    Put THAT on a bumper sticker and drive across the country on Interstate 10.

  • “The 22nd Amendment says that a person can only serve two full terms of their own plus two years of someone else’s term.” – from Greg #13

    The 22nd Amendment does NOT say that a person can only serve two full terms of their own plus two years of someone else’s term. It makes no direct statement whatsoever that limits the amount of time (number of terms) that one person can SERVE. It limits the number of times you can be ELECTED.

    A former president can succeed to the presidency from the Vice Presidency, Speakership of the House or from a coup without violating the 22nd amendment.

  • Dennis is worth repeating:

    No thanks: I’ve had enough of the Clinton and the Bush families to last me a couple of lifetimes.

    New Rule–
    How to tell if things are seriously buggered:
    You live in a democracy that insists on acting like an aristocracy.

    Bush. Clinton. Bush. Clinton.
    I’m so sick of these damn people I could barf in their faces…

  • What is so ambiguous about this statement: ““[N]o person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”?

    Bill served his two terms as Prez, therefore he is ineligible to serve as as the Prez again, therefore he cannot serve as Veep. This isn’t rocket science, and although I dare tread where the constitutional scholars soar, it seems folks are splitting hairs to the genetic level on this one.

    If he’s ineligible to be Prez, he’s ineligible for Veep.

  • WTF? Will someone please enumerate the parts of Clinton’s presidency that were any where near as fucked up as either Bush tenure?

    Please? Just a few. Clearly I missed something.

    Anyhoo, nice thought exercise CB. I know Clinton wouldn’t be interested but I bet Dick n’ George have thought about it.

  • Comments are closed.