Vice President Clark?

One need not look too hard to find speculation about who Barack Obama might pick as a running mate, but Matt Stoller makes a compelling case for retired Gen. Wesley Clark, whom Matt describes as a “unifying choice.”

Contrast that to Wes Clark. Clark, though not in elected office, has a better sense of what it’s like to run for President. He has after all done it before, and for a neophyte, he did very well. More importantly, he has excelled at the real job of a VP candidate, which is not getting votes for the top of the ticket, but being a surrogate for the campaign and for lower ticket races. In 2006, Jon Soltz of Votevets tells me, Clark was the single most requested surrogate in the country, with the possible exceptions of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Clark is heavily involved in both his own PAC and Votevets, raising money and supporting Democrats up and down the ticket. He has huge credibility with officials all over the country because he was reliable and helpful to groups, candidates, and activists. There is simply no one else who comes close to his ability and track record of delivering a persuasive and progressive argument on national security on behalf of Democrats.

On the other political point, Clark is a Clintonista through and through, and so putting him on the ticket would be a key signal to the Clinton world that they will have influence in an Obama administration. You may not like that, but the Clinton people need an incentive to work aggressively for the ticket, and Clark is that incentive. While Obama backers may not like a Clinton person having such an important seat that the table, Clark is actually a supremely progressive advocate, and probably the best Clinton loyalist on national security issues that progressives have.

Matt touches all the bases. Clark opposed the war, is unambiguous in his support for progressive values, has credibility and relationships with foreign leaders, and has “won a war using multi-lateral strategies with zero American casualties.” (I’d certainly like to hear some exploration this fall of the differences in the military’s planning and execution in Kosovo vs. Iraq.)

I’d just add that Clark does not have any obvious personal baggage — folks went looking for dirt in ’04 and didn’t come up with anything. And, obviously, he comes with the kind of national security bona fides that are unrivaled by any political figure in the country.

As for the “unifying” factor, I think it’s also fair to say that Clark is definitely considered a Clinton loyalist. If the Obama campaign wanted to send a signal about bringing the camps together, Clark would appear to largely fit the bill.

But as long as we’re engaging in speculation, let’s also take a look at the downsides.

First, for Clinton’s most ardent supporters, there is no substitute for Clinton herself. It’s likely they want her on the ticket, not someone closely associated with her. In this sense, Clark may not be “unifying” enough.

Second, and on a related note, for those Clinton supporters for whom gender is a key priority, Clark obviously doesn’t fit the bill. (I’m curious whether these Clinton supporters would prefer a Clinton loyalist who’s a man, like Clark, or an Obama loyalist who’s a woman, like Sebelius or Napolitano, on the ticket. Does gender trump loyalties? I’m not sure.)

Third, pundits and talking heads will probably dismiss Clark as someone who sought national office once, and wasn’t an especially impressive candidate. (I’d respond, though, that Clark never really got his due as a candidate. The perceptions about him are largely wrong, and if you look at the details, he did a lot better than most political observers remember.)

And fourth — and this is a big one — Clark hasn’t been especially complimentary to Barack Obama. I’m reminded of this report, for example:

Barack Obama’s foreign policy aide Samantha Power got the candidate in some more hot water Friday when Hillary Clinton’s team targeted her recent comments that Obama’s plan to withdraw troops from Iraq in 16 months was a “best case scenario.” […]

Former NATO commander Wesley Clark, a Clinton supporter, called the comments “disturbing,” and he accused Obama of not being prepared enough to be commander in chief and properly oversee an end to the Iraq war.

“That means knowing where you’re headed before you start down the path,” Clark said.

Now, I suppose there are some rhetorical acrobatics that might help the campaign spin this, but as a rule, a party nominee wouldn’t pick a running mate who has said publicly he’s unprepared for the presidency.

I like Clark a lot, and believe the positives easily outweigh the negatives. But given some of the comments Clark has made about Obama, it might be a tough sell.

Didn’t any of you watch Babylon 5? Don’t you know what happens when you elect a Vice President Clark?

  • I agree with Stoller’s post completely. I’ve been hoping for Obama-Clark for a long while.

  • I like Clark. I liked him for our nominee in ’04. Not because I’m militaristic, quite the opposite; but a certain segment of our society wants to think that we must have the ability to respond to aggression with force and Republicans have done a masterful job of making Democrats look weak in that area. Clark neutralizes every advantage that McCain (allegedly) has.

    Clark is also extremely intellectual, which fits with Obama, and stands in direct opposition to McCain and Bush. A philosophy major general and a Harvard lawyer could lead this country out of the stupor of the 8 years of Bush.

  • Almost every VP has had a slew of things they have had to walk back. GHWB famously (and correctly) lambasted Reagan’s “Voodoo Economics”.

    for Clinton’s most ardent supporters, there is no substitute for Clinton herself. It’s likely they want her on the ticket, not someone closely associated with her.

    And they could have had that, if Hillary had been realistic back in February, instead of seeing that her only opportunity was to tear down the guy who had the clear path to the nomination.

    Clinton’s supporters will come around if they are serious. If they wanted to help elect McCain to spite Obama, then they’d be idiots. And I don’t think most of them are idiots.

  • I still like Edwards for VP. I don’t think Obama can win with an anonymous female on the ticket. If he was going to take the gender risk he might as well choose Clinton. Let’s face it. A white guy will be an asset.

  • I don’t think it would be especially hard for Clark to discount his previous statement. And as for this:

    but as a rule, a party nominee wouldn’t pick a running mate who has said publicly he’s unprepared for the presidency

    That would rule Hillary out…

  • There are a *lot* of people who will argue against the claim that he was a decent campaigner. I don’t actually remember one way or the other.

  • Clark, after Dean, was my choice for president in ’04. They would have made a good ticket together, definitely better than Kerry/Edwards. Clark is certainly the right choice on an experience/policy/worldview basis. Obama needs to buck up his national security boni-fides, and Clark could be the antithisis of Dark Vader Cheney. Politically, a lot of moderate hawks would be attracted to Clark. He presents himself much better than McSame, and has real command experience. However, nothing short of HRC herself may mollify the Clintonistas who are really dug in on gender.

    Clinton’s speech in NY tonight will be a clue. If she digs in (and I think she will) it’s all over for the Dems.

  • If Clark’s criticism of Obama could be a deal-breaker, can we assume that it would be 100 times more a deal-breaker for the “dream ticket”?

    I like Clark, and I think a former general brings some significant advantages to facing McCain.

  • JUST NOTICED THIS ON AP:

    *Officials: Clinton will concede delegate race to Obama*

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton will concede Tuesday night
    that Barack Obama has the delegates to secure the Democratic nomination,
    campaign officials said, effectively ending her bid to be the nation’s
    first female president.

    The former first lady will stop short of formally suspending or ending
    her race in her speech in New York City. She will pledge to continue to
    speak out on issues like health care. But for all intents and purposes,
    the two senior officials said, the campaign is over.

    Most campaign staff will be let go and will be paid through June 15,
    said the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were
    not authorized to divulge her plans.

  • chrenson: And The Clinton campaign has already denied that report. Are you getting as dizzy as I am? 🙂

  • jimBOB said:
    Didn’t any of you watch Babylon 5? Don’t you know what happens when you elect a Vice President Clark?

    And so….it begins 😉

  • And, obviously, he comes with the kind of national security bona fides that are unrivaled by any political figure in the country.

    So? I think we’ve seen ample demonstration of the appalling fact that such bona fides only count if you’re a Republican. And then they count even if you don’t have them.

    Go figure.

    I like Clark, too — he’s not who I’m knocking here. But I can’t help thinking as I hear the speculation about Obama’s choice might be that ultimately Obama will pick someone we weren’t expecting. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part. I’d like to think Obama’s ascendance will represent a real turning point for this nation, something genuinely transformative, and that his choice of VP will reflect that.

    We’ll know eventually…

  • Wow. What short term memories we have. Don’t we recall how poorly Clark did in 2004? The military vote thinks this guy is a chump.

    I liked him, and thought he’d be ok, but he flopped.

  • I’m not a big Clark for VP fan, but I note that with the war with “zero American casualties”, Mr. experience wanted extensive ground-troop deployment, if I’m not mistaken.

  • I’m not a big Clark fan. But one interesting stat. He graduated first in his class at West Point before serving in Viet Nam. That would be a nice contrast to McCain.

  • Danp: Are you getting as dizzy as I am?

    I know, right? All the spin is making me woozy. Still, I have a hunch that this is the real deal. The denial, I’ll wager, is just another VP tactic.

  • Everett said:
    Wow. What short term memories we have. Don’t we recall how poorly Clark did in 2004? The military vote thinks this guy is a chump.

    I liked him, and thought he’d be ok, but he flopped.

    That’s not entirely true. He got into the race late and with no prior campaigning experience…and he still lasted longer than some of the candidates from this year lasted.

  • Yeah, I know he’s bright, and actually I was rooting for a Kerry/Clark ticket. But the Vets Vote didn’t bite. From what I could ascertain, he really rubbed some other Pentagon Brass the wrong way.

  • Clark endorsed Clinton. If you endorse an opponent, you do not get on the ticket or in the administration. Choose wisely Grasshopper!

  • I’d like to see JIm Webb get the nod. He has experience in the Senate, has a son in IraqNam, was secretary of the navy and brings a conservative vent to the table that would assuage fears from Independents and some closet Repugs who would like to see a change in WDC that Obama’s regime wouldn’t be total leftist in nature. Webb has show he has balls and I’d like to hear the man in the Edgar Suit try to pin “surrender” on him. hat would be a good one…

  • I don’t see the difficulty in “spinning” Clark’s jab at Obama’s experience. With Clark, the team now has that experience.

  • He was a terrible candidate in 04.

    The blogoshere, or some, just loved him. For what, I have no idea. He was in the military and against the war. That is hardly rocket science. He was retired military. If he was active, I wonder.

    And he was Hillary with a medal on his chest. One of those surrogates that just couldn’t see the writing on the wall.

    All in all, I vote no. He was a terrible presidential candidate.

  • I liked the idea of Wesley Clark in the run-up to 2004. I even gave him a bit of money. However, he was a terrible candidate.

    And on a for-scifi-geeks-only note: Does anyone else find the name “Vice President Clark” extremely ominous?

  • As to the loyalty vs gender questoin: I think most who support Clinton b/c she’s a woman would be offended by a “Okay, here’s your female candidate” candidate. Neither Napolitano nor Sebellius offer much besides gender really, especially as complements to Obama’s (perceived) weaknesses (foreign policy/military experience). Clark, as a bridge to the Clintons and filling in the Tim Russerts’ laundry-list approach to what constitutes “experience” is a good fit. He doesn’t need to be charismatic or a good retail campaigner, necessarily (anybody else remember when Lloyd Bentsen was going to do that for Mike Dukakis?).

    As to his comments about Obama in Iraq, Clinton has said several times (and she’s right), where we are on any given day in Iraq is not where we will be on January 21, 2008. We’ll have to see where we are on the “path” then to decide how to continue, it’s not hard.

    As for a Clinton Veep-ship: I don’t want it, and if she doesn’t (and I doubt she does) she ought to say so, now and loud and hard.

  • I was a huge Clark fan in 2004, largely because he was a general who was “tough” but not jingoistic or reflexively pro-war–and because, if you looked at his position papers, he might have been the most committed progressive in the race. But the stars on his shoulders would have inoculated him from the usual “liberal wimp” attacks. He wasn’t a great candidate at the start, but he was pretty good by the end–and if he’d chosen to compete in Iowa, he might have gotten farther.

    If he’d run again this time, I might have supported him, though I suspect Obama would have been my choice no matter what. But he was never going to oppose his patrons, the Clintons. (Remember that in ’03 the theory was that he was a stalking horse for Hillary, and/or an obstacle they threw up against Dean, whom they loathe.)

    He’s been obnoxious and dishonest as a Hillary surrogate. My guess is that you can’t spend too much time with the likes of McAsshole, Ickes and Wolfson and not catch some of that. But if it would placate the Clinton supporters, he would be a good choice. I think Clark’s larger political trajectory–as a former Republican who turned back to the Dems as he realized just how awful Bush/Cheney/DeLay/Rove were–does complement Obama’s unity message in a strong way (as would Webb).

  • If I had to choose between Clark and say Richardson, I’d go with the latter..

    This isn’t to say that Clark wouldn’t be a good fit for the role, or that he wouldn’t be a good campaigner. In fact despites some differences, I’d say that both work out to about the same in terms of value-add.

    But while Clark is an accomplised military man, I think Richardson’s foreign policy experience, coupled with governing a state make him a better choice.

    That all being said, I still like Webb too, but as above, now if I had to choose between him and Richardson, I’d go with the latter.

  • I was a big Clark supporter in ’04 and I don’t know that he couldn’t get behind Obama – it isn’t like Obama’s positions are so far removed the he would choose McCain. And frankly I don’t thin he is so petty as to support a candidate (McCain) whose positions don’t jib with Clark in any real way – especially on Iraq.

    He has worked hard since ’04 for Democratic party candidates hopefully negating the he’s really a Republican meme that some Democrats like to throw at him in ’04. As for Vets not getting behind him, he is really strong proponent of veteran issues and the perception of the war has changed for veterans and active duty military enough that this might not be the biggest of issues this time around.

    Another positive is that he doesn’t really hesitate to defend himself. He was on Fox a lot after ’04 (and was one of the analysts they signed on) and he did mix it up with a few of their idiots, which is something Democrats or “liberals” don’t always do well.

    I haven’t been on the CCN much since ’06, but they are fairly die-hard Clinton supporters over there, but many of his original supports are not there anymore (possibly because of the tone) and I know of a few that actually either support or work for Obama’s campaign.

  • Clark has been my first choice since day one. In addition to the personal qualities he brings to the table, he undercuts McCain’s (undeserved) appeal as the adult in the race on foreign policy and national security issues, without which he’s little more than a warmed-over version of Dole ’96.

  • Well it certainly looks like it will come down to Clark, Webb, Richardson, or Sebelius.

    I’d strike Webb just because I don’t want to hear any more of his gawd awful prose thank you very much. Richardson is pretty awesome (and if he ran for President with that Beard I think he’d have gone farther. Honestly, how sweet is that beard??) but I hear rumours that he has some womanizing issues (or was it rage? I can’t recall), does that rule him out? Sebelius is a woman (obviously) with some real VP credentials, but will it be too transparent a nod? Also, her speech after the State of the Union quite literally put me to sleep.

    I like Clark…he was my boy in 04, brings a helluva lot to the table if you ask me…and I’m a sucker for an intellectual politician (he’s a Rhodes Scholar if I’m not mistaken)

    it also doesn’t hurt that he’s one handsome older man 🙂

  • I’ve liked Obama-Richardson since the beginning, though I never actually thought it could happen. who knew???

  • First, for Clinton’s most ardent supporters, there is no substitute for Clinton herself. It’s likely they want her on the ticket, not someone closely associated with her. In this sense, Clark may not be “unifying” enough.

    I suspect the people who are that hung up on having Clinton are a tiny vocal minority of her supporters. Most likely, anyone who won’t be satisfied with anyone else no matter what could be safely dismissed. I really do believe that when the candidate is finally chosen, the whole party will fall in behind that person. After all, the republicans had this same dynamic, remember? Plenty of republican gasbags declared with eternal conviction that they would *never* support McCain. Most of them dropped the hyperbole and fell right in behind him. The same will happen with the democrats who are bellowing now.

    Second, and on a related note, for those Clinton supporters for whom gender is a key priority, Clark obviously doesn’t fit the bill. (I’m curious whether these Clinton supporters would prefer a Clinton loyalist who’s a man, like Clark, or an Obama loyalist who’s a woman, like Sebelius or Napolitano, on the ticket. Does gender trump loyalties? I’m not sure.)

    Ditto here. The people hung up on this to the point of rejecting anyone but Clinton are probably a tiny minority.

    Third, pundits and talking heads will probably dismiss Clark as someone who sought national office once, and wasn’t an especially impressive candidate.

    Seriously, does anyone think the pundits won’t do this in any case? They’re in the GOP’s pocket. They’re McCain’s “base”. They’ll spin lies and smears about the democratic candidate team no matter who it is. The question is, will the candidate and the VP pick be proactive enough to squash the narrative against them? I’m confident Obama can do that. I’ll admit I don’t know about Wes Clark.

    And fourth — and this is a big one — Clark hasn’t been especially complimentary to Barack Obama.

    Political chest thumping is easy to dismiss. He was a Clinton supporter talking up his chosen candidate. If Obama does tag Clark for his VP pick, they could easily respond to this criticism by replying that Obama is smart enough to take the advice of a real expert (unlike both Bush and McCain).

    Having said all that, I’m not absolutely sold on the idea of Obama giving Clark the nod. I really don’t know a lot about him. He has a good record in both defense and national security, and his 2000 report on what to do about Al Queda was very well-received so I hear. But I don’t know much more than that.

  • CB: “I’d certainly like to hear some exploration this fall in the differences in the military’s planning and execution in Kosovo vs. Iraq”

    Sure – Kosovo was largely an air-war, including the bombing of a TV station killing innocent jounalists despite knowing they were inside – Amnesty identified the incident as a war crime. The only redeeming point is that Clark admitted that he feels remorse for the incident, and overall seems like a person who takes innocent deaths seriously.

    And of course in the fall, wingnuts won’t take that line of attack, and so on the political front Clark may be helpful to Obama – still, I’m not a big fan.

  • Second, and on a related note, for those Clinton supporters for whom gender is a key priority, Clark obviously doesn’t fit the bill.

    Female chauvinists have as much place in the party as do male chauvinists, black chauvinists, brown chauvinists, Irish chauvinists, etc., etc. This is the branch of “feminism” who used to argue 100 years ago that white women should get the vote to help “keep the country” from all the darkies and immigrants. The self-entitled boomer bimbos have been a PITA for 40 years.

  • Obama-Pelosi ’08

    I doubt that would occur, but I firmly believe that Obama would be better off with a female VP (other than Clinton) than any of the other potential male running mates.

  • “I’m curious whether these Clinton supporters would prefer a Clinton loyalist who’s a man, like Clark, or an Obama loyalist who’s a woman, like Sebelius or Napolitano, on the ticket. Does gender trump loyalties? I’m not sure.”

    I’m curious, too. Any Clinton supporters willing to weigh in on this?

  • Please. PLEASE. No More Military Men In The Executive Office. It continues to send the Wrong Signal to the rest of the world. Support separation of State and Military. Has not the American military machine foisted itself Enough Already upon the rest of the world?

  • Dale (#5) – no. Edwards for Attorney General, then the Supreme Court, where he can spend the rest of his life hounding the thugs and turning the court around from bending over for the corporations.

  • Wes Clark would be a great choice, but VP has to go to Hillary. SecDef Clark sounds very, very good to me, as does Attorney General Edwards.

  • I don’t think Clark would alienate the most ardent Clinton supporters. Sebelius would render them apoplectic. If it’s a woman, it’s got to be Hillary, or watch out for a November revolt from a sizable contingent.

    I like Clark, especially for the way he shores up Obama’s national security inexperience, and the way he puts McCain to shame. First in his class at West Point and a Rhodes Scholar. But I agree with those who have said he’s not an especially strong campaigner.

    I don’t see a problem with spinning his comments about Obama. But maybe there is some hostility between them beneath the surface. Who knows? But part of Obama’s style is reaching out to everyone, including adversaries, so why not?

    There are others I think would work well also, but right now Clark gets my nod.

  • Stevio said: “I’d like to see Jim Webb get the nod.”

    Okay, again, you guys can’t have Jim Webb. He’s going to be our Senior Senator come January and probably have Mark Warner with him and we are going to keep it that way for years (actually, Webb is pretty old, but we’ll try).

    DKE asks: “I’m curious, too. Any Clinton supporters willing to weigh in on [whether they’d like a male Clinton supporter or a female Obama supporter as VP]?”

    Well, coming from the male side of the Clinton supporter equation, I’ve got to say that I don’t really think any of the other female politicians actually measure up to Hillary Clinton, so why not take her?

    And if it comes down to a man as VP, I’d really like to see Richardson as the best experienced candidate.

    Clark however is a great choice, especially compared to McCan’t. Clark ran NATO, McCan’t ran a training squadron. Clark won Kosovo. McCan’t got shot down over Vietnam. Frankly, Clark doesn’t match McCan’ts qualifications, he obliterates them (not being more than a tissue of lies anyway).

    Look, stop dissing Clinton’s supporters by implying (or stating outright) that they are red-necked racists, stop the misogyny (did we really need a reminder of why even Catholics like me consider the Church as deeply misognistic Father?) and give Clinton her due and we can rally around Obama.

    And tell Eugene Robinson to shut up.

  • Anyone but Hillary. She has poisoned the well.

    Clark (a Clintonista) would be a great choice, a unifying choice, and a competent president if it ever came to that.

    I don’t care about “sending messages” to the rest of the world. Bush worries too much about “sending the wrong message” and follows it up with bad policy. It isn’t about PR.

  • Just say NO to this Clinton appeaser, whiny, former GE loser (as vp). No! No Clintons or surrogates. Kitty litter should be fresh when you change the box.

  • Clark was one of the most underwhelming presidential candidates I’ve ever seen. Remember how they started putting him in cardigans to make him appeal to women? He comes off as utterly inauthentic. I think he would be a terrible choice. If it’s got to be a Clinton loyalist, Strickland might be good. My top choice would have to be Mark Warner, if he actually wanted it over a safe Senate seat. But it might have to be Clinton. Her core fans are nuts and might demand no less. And I can live with that.

  • Being from VA, while I like Webb a lot, I think we need him to stay in the Senate. We have a great Democratic candidate running for retiring John Warner’s seat, former governor Mark Warner, and VA could end up with TWO Democratic senators. And we need more Democrats in the Senate if President Obama is going to get things done.

  • I’d prefer that whoever the VP is be someone who can function as a credible heir apparent. Assuming Obama gets two terms we want someone who can prevent the GOP from clawing their way back in in 2016, and a VP is well positioned to be the prohibitive favorite.

    In any case I really hope we don’t see another half-assed choice like Lieberman or Ferraro. Enough of these fomer veep candidates becoming turncoats or nutjobs.

  • I think that Obama should chose Chuck Hagel. That ticket would win by 70%, and deliver an overwhelming win in the house and senate.

    It would send a strong message that he truly believes in unifying the country.
    It would dominate the independent vote, and force McCain to go to the far right. This would solidify the left base against McCain, and it might become one of the most lopsided wins in recent history. He would easily take Nebraska and the purple states, with strong milatary loyalties.

    He could preannounce his cabnet, and pull in everyone from Webb to Powell, to all of the outstanding female governors. He could reach out to Clinton’s supporters, but then again, do you really thing that Hillary’s supports are going to let John McCain pick the next supreme court, or bomb Iran, or allow the oil to continue, or let health-care continue to rise in cost, or destroy unions? No way. He doesn’t need Hillary’s support. Her window of influence is closing, and she needs to get onboard while the polls are close. Give it a month, with Dean firing bombs at McCain, and Obama might open up a 15-20 point lead before the convention. McCain voted to impeach Clinton, but has a similar past with women. Once this is exposed by 527s, do you think that the far right will embrace McCain. His comments about Asians, and votes against civil rights issues over the years… He is a horrible Republican candidate, who only won because Rudy,Fred,Mitt, and Mike all wanted to be the man. Now they have a person who is not truly a Republican, and they are in serious trouble.

  • Clinton wouldn’t take VP, in my opinion. She’s waiting for Obama to implode, and then she can graciously save the party. Also, she thinks he will lose at best, and she can be ready for 2012. Not that I think she’ll be electable then either.

    Webb strikes me as having a bit too much baggage for women to accept him, and I am not sure he’s going to win over Appalachia. There’s not much evidence he did so when he won his Senate race, and I doubt he’ll do so in the general.

    I like Sebelius, but I can’t see her as an effective counter-puncher, and I don’t think she can deliver Kansas.

    Clark is soporific as a speaker, and offers no real gain to the ticket. He won’t win over Hillary hardcore fans, and he doesn’t have much of a territorial or demographic boost to offer.

    I’d suggest either Warner or Richardson. To my mind, Warner is more convincing as a balance to the ticket, would connect better in Appalachia, and does not have the possibility of enraging Hillary fans the way “Judas” might. I also don’t recall Warner having any baggage with wandering hand issues. My pick would be Warner, although I could see a campaign picking Richardson to go after Hispanics.

  • Agree with everything but would add that Clark’s concerns about Obama are a plus: his gravitas is an important complement to the Junior Senator, and like it or not, we’re going to need an experienced hand to work with the Joint Chiefs and DOD.

  • First, I agree with Lance that we should rule out Webb and Warner because we need them in the Senate. I don’t like Chafee, because he’s a conservative Republican whose only benefit is that he is anti-War. (On the other hand, if you want to go that way, what about Lincoln Chaffee. He left the party, is progressive, and can really say ‘I tried so hard to remain a progressive voice in the Party,’ and just couldn’t stand it any more.)

    I could accept Clark, with qualms, for most of the reasons stated, but he’d be no more than a third choice at best. My first two choices are Sebelius and Richardson, in that order. (I was originally a Richardson supporter for the top slot.)

    Neither are great campaigners — but with Obama heading the ticket, ‘barely adequate’ is good enough, and both are better than that. Neither necessarily ‘brings their state.’ NM will be Democratic, and even Sebelius might not bring Kansas over, though she might surprise you on that, especially given the Barr factor.

    Richardson has one main drawback for this position that might, sadly, rule him out. He’s Hispanic, and people might be reluctant to vote for a ticket with two ethnic minorities.

    But both of them bring something to the table that none of the others do, if you study them, and here Sebelius is even stronger. Their record shows that they think — and govern — with the same philosophy Obama does. They don’t ‘triangulate,’ they take a position and hold it, but then they are able to bring Republicans to them, on this position. They also have the ability to disagree without making enemies, and the courage to state their positions in the face of the opposition. (Obama on Cuba, or condemning black homophobia in front of black ministers — and in both cases he probably came away with more votes than had he ‘pandered.’ He might even have changed a few minds.)

    I’m not going to take the time to go into my usual exhaustive detail — but this might just be something to expand upon and send to Mark.

  • For VP, I’d like either Governor Schweitzer of Montana (will appeal to Independents), or, going for the long shot, Nancy Pelosi, if she’d be willing to do it. Pelosi would give up being Speaker, which would be hard for her, but she’d gain a place in the history books as America’s first female VP (who remembers speakers two generations after their term?). (It might even give her a shot at the presidency, although she could be in the Golda Meir age range by the time that happens.) She’s one of the few people who can easily get us past the Hillary crisis without bringing in any of their own baggage. She would come from strength rather than from a failed bid for some other office (her gravitas hugely exceeds Clinton’s and McCain’s put together). She and Obama are in tune politically, and they could make a great political team – she could be quite powerful as Obama’s ambassador to the legislative branch. She’d get a lot of gender identity vote, probably from Independent and Republican women as well as Democratic ones.

  • I personally do not like or care for Wes Clark very much. Last year I saw Wes Clark on the upper East Side of Manhattan NYC and being an admirer of his at the time I tried to talk to him. He was on his cell phone at the time but nonetheless I wanted to extend my hand and say hello to the former Presidential candidate and NATO Commander man I tell you he blew me off like I was soliciting him for money, he looked at me and told me “I’m on the phone get out of here”, considering the millionaire upper East Side neighborhood we were in I felt like a poor man being blown off by some billionaire industralist not by someone who once wanted to be a public servant for me and millions of others. So I say Fuck Wes Clark, he’s a loser just like Hillary Clinton.

  • A lot of VP candidates have later blown up as they come under pulic scrutiny for the first time — this wouldn’t happen with Clark. I think it also deserves mentioning that Clark has been working his butt off behind the scenes to keep us out of a war with Iran. Many independents and moderate Republicans were interested in him during the last go-round, so having him on the ticket would likely bring some of those to our side. He would also be an incredible asset doing the job of getting our foreign policy/military act together again — he has enormous credibility outside of this country (won more medals than anyone since Eisenhower) and a vast creative intelligence that can be applied to issues foreign and domestic.

  • So many people have concentrated on the ‘who will they bring to the table’ aspect of the choice. But we should be asking who will cook the best meal if they have to take over as chef — okay, the metaphor is fanciful, both treatments kicked in, I’m relatively pain-free for the first time in years, and I’m a little giddy.

    Sebelius’ record as Governor — and even her previous work as Insurance Commissioner — the first Democrat in a century to win that — shows she leads in this aspect.

    (And as for political savvy, she’s part of the first father-daughter governor team in history — with Jim Gilligan of Ohio — and her father-in-law was a long time Republican Congressman. Growing up in a political family isn’t an assurance that she picked up lessons, but it certainly implies she won’t be lacking in political know-how, and again her record shows that.)

    Obama doesn’t need someone who will add to his political skills, he’s got all that are needed. He doesn’t need someone who can appeal to a particular part of the electorate, because he’ll do better than expected with most of the supposedly ‘dubious’ ones.

    He needs, simply, a Vice President. And Sebelius gives him that.

  • Clark would be a great pick. I was for him at the 04 caucus. Get Edwards to sign on for AG and the landslide picks up more momentum. Smart picks like these would energize much of the country and help some forget the outrage the nomination fight has generated.

  • Thanks Prup…

    I have been wavering between Sebelius and Napalitano. You moved me further toward Sebelius. We need to have someone outside of the Senate so that the democratic party count is not jeopardized.

    I am a white male pushing toward 60 this fall. I am hopeful that I can live long enough that after our 2nd black and 2nd female presidents we can drop gender and race from the discussions.

    I have seen references to Sebelius’s age and what it would be in 2016. I hope that Obama will choose a non-Clinton female for v.p. and that she will prove, via a good performance as v.p., to be worthy of the presidency after Obama. Our country will be well served, in the future, when we have a female president. I respect Hillary, but could not support a Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton sequence in the White House.

    As to THE NANCY… I pray that ‘impeachment is off the table’ Pelosi is defeated in her Congressional primary. As to her as v.p. – HELL NO!

  • Clark has always been my first choice. But I have tunnel vision…..and all I see is the FOX factor. Commentator on FOX would go a long way if unity is really the goal. Those viewers may be nimbrods, but they sure are loyal to their station and do represent some in our society. Also, I like bringing on someone who doesn’t carry all the same views, and has the ability to speak their peace.

  • Pissing up a guy’s leg while trying to convince him it’s raining.
    Say NO to Wes Clark, NO to Hillary and NO to every other high profile Hillary surrogate who pissed on Obama, either personally or profesionally with made up stories of incompetence. We may LOVE to have a Team of Rivals, but NOT A TEAM OF SABATEURS.

  • I’d really like to see General Clark as VP. For one thing, extricating ourselves from Iraq and negotiating in the middle East would be an excellent use of his skills. If not VP, I’d like to see him as Secretary of Defense.

  • I would be delighted to vote for Obama/Clark.

    Wes brings with him smarts, experience, diplomatic cred, military cred and a real sense of what our priorities ought to be.

  • Clark is the biggest faux Democrat in Washington history. The man was a Republican until it came time to run for office in 2004 and he realised he wasn’t stupid, er conservative enough to win that base over.

  • Obama/Clark is the strongest ticket.

    Clark is a real progressive. I organized a conference in Washington DC last November about NON-MILITARY solutions to foreign policy problems. Clark was on my panel and he knocked the subject out-of-the-park with a brilliant presentation. Think of a 4-star general pushing non-military approaches to problems!!! Think that might help change the debate with McCain?

  • 61 year old investment advisor says yes! yes! prettty please! Clarkis elegant, Southern,and blows away onmilitary matters. We need a win.. a lady plus Obama is just too pat. If Clinton supporters don’t back Obama, they are worse than fools, they are suicidal idiots. Hillary acts like the petty privileged high school debater. I did the “liberated lady” thing.. I raised two children with not one dollar of child support; I built a nice business from zero; I supported my parents in their later years. Hillary’s singular lack of grace and class does not represent me or most successful women. She is a mirror for many people who never quite make it..she will never understand that her personality came through and it wasn’t a pretty sight.

    This is a grand and glorious night. She could have talked of how King in Heaven must feel tonight; what a beyond moment in contrast to 1968. Just grand.

  • Wesley Clark supports both the Constitution and the Enlightenment. I like him.

    Obama/Clark 08 is a good ticket. Maybe him being tight with the Clintons would mollify a few Hillbots.

  • I agree it is nice to find out I am not the only one who thinks Clark is the best bet for Obama. The biggest factor of the Generals comments about Obama don’t really hold water. There are a lot of intelligent people in the mainstream that are calling for a so called “dream team”. Certainly Hillary’s comments about McCain being ready but not Obama is just one of a lot of whoppers that would come back to bite Obama if she were on the ticket.
    The bottom line is the war hero is going to run on national security and Obama’s resume of being tough on defense and foreign policy will pale to McCains. It will be a nice conciliatory gesture to the supporters of the would be dynasty. Besides most of the blue collar workers just voted for her because they know her name and realize she’s white.

  • As far as transformative VP selections go…what do people think of an Obama/Powell ticket? I understand that Powell can be pegged and attacked as the public face of the Bush administration’s WMD propaganda campaign. But still, I wonder if there’s some true sea changing value to this ticket.

  • What a great idea! I supported him in ’04 and was hoping he would run again this year.

    Where do I send my money to get a Obama/Clark ’08 bumper sticker?

  • I too strongly support Gen. Clark for VP. I voted for him in ’04 knowing that his skills as both a military leader and businessman would rid us of the chaos of the first four years of Bush. Sadly Gen. Clark was not a politician nor a good speaker, but how he has changed! If any of you have heard him recently, and listened to him before, you know that now he speaks very well, that he now understands how to respond to baseless accusations, and that he holds his own. Look up his speeches on YouTube and you’ll see what I mean.

    Let me tell you why Richardson, who I think is a good politician, would hurt Obama more than help. Richardson has been running as a “Hispanic.” Black man and Hispanic. What is the BIGGEST issue that US Citizens are fighting? Illegal (and let me stress that again ILLEGAL) Hispanic immigrants. Right now White America (sorry, this is reality folks, a huge part of this nation still holds some fear and bigotry) is nervous enough about Obama but most are willing to look past his color, but add a Hispanic to the ticket? McCain will win.

    As for concerns about Clark being President after Obama, that’s eight years away (hopefully) and anything can happen in that time. And if Clark’s successes in business, leadership, etc. are any indication, as well as his ability to adapt, change and grow with the times any key, he’ll be perfect for the Presidency in 2016.

  • Clark would be McCain’s worst nightmare. In terms of pure intellectual brilliance and vision, McCain does not come close to being able to play in Obama’s league. McCain is a one issue candidate. He mostly talks about the Iraq war and his national security experience. Having a four-star general and former supreme command of NATO on the Democratic ticket would completely negate the only apparent strength McCain has.

    See http://obamaclark.wordpress.com

  • Does Clark have another book coming out?

    He usually pulls this shit whenever he has a book in the works to boost it’s piddly sales numbers…

  • I’ve been harping about Clark for VP for weeks.

    Here’s what I posted on maddowonline.com in response to her criticism of the idea of Jim Webb for VP:

    Aside from everything that Rachel said in her show about Webb (all of which is true), the dems also can’t afford to have another senator on the ticket (even one who’s not first-term like Webb and Obama). The democratic majority in the senate was thin even before Kennedy took ill. Don’t forget, part of that “majority” is based on the false assumption that Lieberman is more than an elephant in a blue suit.

    When ‘Race for the White House’ did a list on Thursday of the top five contenders for democratic running mate, I was sorely disappointed that no one mentioned someone who seems the perfect pick to me.

    He’s got all of Jim Webb’s pluses without the negatives.

    Although Bill Richardson would be a GREAT pick, I’m afraid the media would just kill us all with constant rhetorical questions like “is the country ready for an all minority ticket?” which might hurt the chances of winning.

    The others have their pluses but don’t have much name recognition and all have down-sides.

    He brings Military experience of the highest caliber. Despite this, he’s not looked at as just a white guy with a gun. He’s more the soft-spoken intelligent soldier type (who just-so-happens to have led more troops, domestic and international than any democrat I can think of).

    He is revered and respected by all sections of the democratic and large parts of the republican parties and most independants I’ve talked to.

    If you’re gonna play into the media’s superficial sociological demographics game, he fits the type of person who can bring in “white working class” voters.

    He’s from Arkansas, which is smack-dab between the south and midwest and will help the dems chances in both areas of the map.

    I feel the clear choice (if you’re not looking at superficial reasons like gender or who can bring in the latino vote simply on the basis of being latino) has got to be Wesley Clark.

    I mean, Who’s better to go to those military base towns throughout the south and try to convince them to vote for someone who didn’t serve over a war hero.

    Who’s got the national name-recognition to get the attention of the entire country as a positive without little negatives like senate voting record getting in the way?

    Who’s better to go to the southwest with Bill Richardson and try to convince those ranch workers to vote for a black man over someone from Arizona?

    Who’s better (aside maybe from Sen. Clinton herself) to convince Clintonites to vote for a democratic ticket without her name on it? This is assuming you don’t pander to women by putting someone on the ticket primarily because they have two X-chromosomes.

    Who has as much experience leading (not just being involved, but truly LEADING) internationally?

    And most importantly, who is better fit with the skills necessary to take over as commander-in-chief of the most powerful nation in the world on day one?

    I only see one name that fits, and it’s Wesley Clark. I hope Rachel Maddow (who I love and would let adopt me if she so pleased), the media, and most importantly the Obama campaign and democratic party give him his due.

  • Dream Cabinet:

    VP: Wesley Clark

    Atty General: John Edwards

    Sec. of State: Bill Richardson

    Health and Human Services: Hillary Clinton

    Sec. of Defense: Jim Webb (or Chuck Hagel if you want to go across party lines for one or two posts)

    Then throw in some names like Biden, Daschle, Clyburn, and Wechsler and the country’s on the right track already!

  • You’re forgetting that a vice presidential candidate also has to be able to run in 2012. By that time, Clark would be older than McCain. He wouldn’t be the most attractive and charismatic candidate. That’s why I think Edwards would still be the best VP.

  • Clark would be a great choice. It’s true he was unprepared to deal with the press the first time around, and he has spent the last four years turning that around, showing up the boobs on Fox when they try their gotcha questions on him. He was also unfamiliar with the whole political landscape — his son once said to me that one of the top people running his campaign was actually a plant from another campaign — if true, our perception of his campaigning ability would, of course, be strongly slanted against him. But the man is amazingly smart and has spent the years since then learning how politics works and helping the Democratic party down ticket. His military credentials would make him an amazing asset and he’s alredy been tested and found to be lacking any skeletons in the closet. And I have to agree with the people who think a southern white male who isn’t another senator is a good balance.

  • After thinking about this for a while, I think Clark would be the best choice. The only real downside is that I don’t think he does well as a public speaker and might not do well in a debate. But he’s got the experience, Lord knows, that Obama lacks and has been very active and effective politically since his run in 2004. I supported him them for the nomination but realized quickly that he wasn’t ready for prime time — prime media time, unfortunately. The fact that he endorsed Clinton is something of a plus at this point. And finally, he would be able to become president whose views are at least not contrary to Obamas and probably very congruent in many areas.

  • There is something else no one is talking about. Wesley Clark is a white man. He fits the bill for those uneducated voters who still hesitate to vote for a black man. (Man, I hate to play the race card.) And he’s retired military. It may not be enough to push them over but it might.

  • Is it just me, or wouldn’t HRC supporters be MORE pissed if a non-Hillary woman took the mantle of “first” female VP or President?

    Wouldn’t Sebelius be MORE of a slap than a Clark? At least that leaves open the door for HRC to be “first.”

    FWIW, I like:

    Obama – Clark
    Obama – Dean
    Obama – Richardson
    Obama – Cleland
    Obama – Schweitzer
    Obama – Reich
    Obama – Edwards
    Obama – Rubin

  • So… One other point. Everytime McCain faced General Clark… he would have to salute him. 😉

  • In 2004 Fox was always attacking Clark every chance they could get. The right was very afraid he would be the nominee then and were so relieved when he did not make it. Wes Clark is the worst vp the right thinks of to run against.

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