Victory in Iraq

Guest Post by Zoe Kentucky

Sometimes I love Cal Thomas.

The following lyrics should be sung to the tune of “Blowin’ in the Wind.”

How many times can this nation draw down,
When faced with a difficult war?
Haven’t we seen what retreat has produced,
Whenever we’ve tried it before?

With polls showing a decline in public support for the effort to establish stability and self-determination in Iraq, aging hippies from the ’60s and their anti-all-war progeny have surfaced and are picketing and singing their protest songs at President Bush’s ranch and at venues where he speaks.
(snip)
The president has repeatedly stated his objective in Iraq and in the wider war against terrorists. What is the objective of his critics and what is their forecast of what would occur following a precipitous U.S. withdrawal? They have an obligation to tell us, unless they are just blowing in the wind.

Um, first of all, you do know that you just used a famous anti-war protest song to mock people who protest war? You then rewrote those lyrics to be an anti-protester song? C’mon, Cal, what are the odds that in the 60s you believed that Bob Dylan was a dirty hippie? Perhaps even a commie pinko faggot?

Anyways, as for everything else Cal wrote in his column, he also touts the party line that we must stay in Iraq, “Pulling out of Iraq before the job is done is not an option. Victory is our only option.” But I do have an honest, non-snarky question– how does one truly define victory in Iraq? What is the job and how do we know when it is done? I was talking just yesterday to a friend who has three brothers in the U.S. military. (She opposes the war, her brothers are all over the map. Two of them voted for Kerry while stationed in Iraq.) Over the past three years they’ve all been in and out of Iraq serving the long, dangerous combat tours that everyone always hears about. Recently one of her brothers told her that the one major thing that has changed since the beginning of the war is that the captured, wounded and dead were all Iraqis. But now? They’re from everywhere but Iraq, he said he even “got” a Canadian once. (Sorry Michael!) So how far away is this inevitable victory if Iraq’s borders are unguarded? Is it at all foreseeable that there is an end to the people crossing her borders to fight?

As far as I can tell, new Iraqi government or not, the fighting in Iraq could pretty much go on indefinitely. I know that a lot of pro-war folks like to think that those of us who have always opposed the Iraq war are now reveling in how badly things are going. I really don’t think that’s true. While I do take a small amount of pleasure in what I hope to be Bush’s well-earned downfall, the whole situation depresses me because, frankly, I’m very deeply conflicted at this point. I don’t believe we should stay but I also don’t believe we should go– yet. I think on some level we are morally obligated to do something other than cut and run. However, outside of establishing a new government there, no one has defined what “victory” would actually be. The same way that Bush refuses to set a timetable, he also refuses to describe how things would have to be for us to leave. I can’t help but ask, what signs are we waiting for?

I’m among the ranks of people who have always feared and believed that our war will result in a civil war. Sadly, at this moment it seriously appears to be leaning that way more than ever before. I’ve said this time and time again, from the very beginning of the war, that the things that I fear will go wrong do not go wrong. I have perpetually hoped that somehow the neo-cons do see or know something that I don’t. Sometimes I’ve even hoped that they’ll just get lucky and things will go their way. Right now I do feel like many of us have been vindicated to a certain extent, but it is far more bitter than sweet. I think a lot of us have been hoping that we’re proven wrong about the war in Iraq, although at this point I’m nearly at the end of my hope.

  • The way I see Iraq is it’s worse off now than before we INVADED IT. Of course we have 1800 and some soldiers dead, thousands maimed for life and probably a 100,000 injured or dead Iraqi’s. Including lots of innocent people. Of course Halliburton is alot richer, alot of oil companies are alot richer, our nation is being driven to bankruptcy and of course the rich have tax cuts.
    We supported Saddam for years. We helped him kill lots of people. Yes he was a very bad man.
    I would say in worldview we are very bad people too. We attacked and are occupying Iraq.
    Lot’s to be proud of.

  • Like many who opposed the war, you may belive that the
    United States owes something to the Iraqi people after
    having “broken” their country. But I very much doubt that
    President Bush and the Republicans share this view.
    They are, more than anything else, interested in domestic
    political power. Iraq was supposed to be the fountain of
    “political capital” that was supposed to usher in a generation
    of Republican domination. Obviously it did not work out that
    way.

    You can feel the Republican “cut and run” building. Of course
    such an accomplished group of propagandists and liars
    will not call it that. They will call it victory. They will call it
    mission accomplished. And they will cut and run and start
    a major troop drawdown in time for the 2006 election.

    The Bush administration has succeeded in installing what
    is, for all practical purposes, an Islamic state that is closely
    allied with Iran, a country dedicated to obtaining nuclear
    weapons. The Bush administration is founded on the
    principle that if you tell a lie enough it will become the
    “truth”. Iraq will be a victory because they will call it a
    victory. The only question is whether the voters will
    believe their lies once again.

  • I truly find it amazing how the self proclaimed “uniter” does not hesitate to take any opportunity, no matter how low or crass, to further divide the country. He has now effectively unleashed “moms vs. moms” in an emotiona tug of war that should never, ever be politicized. Anything to try and deflect from his failed leadership.

  • How many times can this nation draw down,
    When faced with a difficult war?
    Haven’t we seen what retreat has produced,
    Whenever we’ve tried it before?

    As far as I can remember the only time the US drew down
    was Vietnam and Lebanon.

    Although many predicted bad things if we drew down in Vietnam,
    they did not happen. Yes, the communist killed and imprisoned
    some people, but the suffering probably was less then continued war.

    Could somebody show me the bad things retreat produced.

    The entire premise of the song is incorrect.

  • Do not be surprised if before 2008, we have ‘re-defined’ the war’s battlefield and are fighting it in Iran. Pray that Bushco does not use the same, “take it to them before they take it to us” mantra as an excuse to start launching nukes. For as you know, nothing is off the table.

  • The most disturbing part of this is that the same people who so brazenly – and stupidly – got us and the Iraqis into this mess in the first place are the same people who are supposed to extricate us.

    You know, in the corporate world of the last few years, when executives have lied and cheated their way to millions of dollars in ill-gotten gains, they have been indicted for fraud (among other things) and sent to prison. New management is put in place to clean up the mess and to repair the company’s battered image and customer & employee relationships.

    In the case of the Iraq War, though, we are stuck with the same buffoons who got us into this mess. Something about that is just not right. For one, they’ve not been held accountable. Secondly, why should anyone have any confidence that they can, in fact, clean things up? They’re completely incompetent.

    So, here we sit with the political version of Beavis and Butthead leading us onward. That just gives me a load of confidence. Not.

  • But isn’t the real mission to privatize industry,
    especially oil, in Iraq? Democracy is not
    the goal of the of the neocons – complete
    control over the petroleum industry is,
    and democracy is the conduit. More
    precisely, establishing a capitalistic,
    free market economy in Iraq is the
    goal. The neocons don’t give a damn
    about liberty or freedom or any of
    that crap. They don’t care about it
    here. From that perspective, there’s no
    way we’re going to pull out until we
    achieve what we went in there for.

    And I’m not sure Bush really understands
    why we’re there. He’s simply the front man.
    He doesn’t call the shots. They sold him on
    the war, just as they sold most of us – they
    knew what buttons to press.

  • I’m sure Cal Thomas is telling all his family members of military age to get over there and clean up the Pottery Barn.

    BTW, if you drive a truck through the pottery barn, and you can’t afford to pay for it, what should happen? Shouldn’t someone go to JAIL?

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