Was it really ‘reckless and repulsive’?

As political theater goes, the Sen. Larry Craig (R-Idaho) story is hard to resist. A conservative Republican senator, who touts “family values” and champions anti-gay legislation, is caught (literally) with his pants down. It’s a scandal with sex, lies, and police reports. There’s an angle for hypocrisy, and another for the intersection of the Republican Party and homosexuality.

Plus, it’s August, and we can only speculate so much on who’ll replace Alberto Gonzales.

That said, Hugh Hewitt’s post yesterday raises an interesting discussion point.

Senator Craig Should Resign. Today.

I realize that I did not say this about Senator Vitter, but Craig’s behavior is so reckless and repulsive that an immediate exit is required.

In response to Craig’s fairly ridiculous version of events in that Minneapolis men’s room, Hewitt added, “I don’t believe him. Read the statement by the arresting officer. He must think the people of Idaho are idiots. But even if I did believe him, this would make his judgment too flawed to be in the United States Senate in a time of war. He has to go.”

Now, I don’t believe Craig, either. I’m hard pressed to imagine how anyone could. And sure, Craig’s conduct certainly raises questions about his judgment. But as hesitant as I am to defend a hypocritical right-wing Republican — or, for that matter, to get in the way of one far-right conservative attacking another — isn’t Hewitt’s criticism a little strong?

Or more to the point, why is it that Vitter’s conduct is unfortunate, while Craig’s is “reckless and repulsive” and in need of “immediate action”?

Radley Balko noted, in response to Hewitt, “Guess there’s some sort moral distinction between cheating on your wife via anonymous gay sex and cheating on your wife by paying for hetero sex with a prostitute.”

Yglesias added, “I can imagine distinguishing between these cases, but I would think that any difference would tend to cut in favor of Craig rather than against him, since paying prostitutes for sex is a real crime and it’s still unclear to me what it is Craig’s guilty of.”

That last point is particularly noteworthy. Given what we know, Craig apparently hoped to arrange sex with an undercover police officer in an adjoining stall. But David Kurtz has a good post today explaining that the criminal case against Craig is pretty weak.

Leering stares, foot tapping, a lingering presence. Are any of those, even taken together, what most reasonable people would call criminal?

Now, I think there was probably a bit more to Craig’s conduct — bringing his foot and hand under the stall partition was fairly obvious — but the broader point is sound. Craig apparently wanted to proposition the undercover cop, but very little actually happened.

In contrast, David Vitter was a frequent client of an alleged prostitution service. He would chat with the DC Madam on his cell phone while on the Senate floor casting votes. He was paying for sex after declaring that adultery alone disqualified someone from holding elected office.

If one compares Vitter and Craig, and decides that the latter is guilty of “repulsive” behavior that requires an “immediate exit” because this is a “time of war,” it sounds an awful lot like homophobia.

That’s quite a cocktail of a double-standard and hypocrisy that Who-it has concocted. I’m guessing that Koolaid is the main ingredient.

I think we all need to get our bathroom hand-signals straight or you might end up with a Republican Senator in your stall when you reach for the toilet paper. That’s what I’d call “unfortunate.”

  • Probably the confusion stems between people’s indignation when someone is a hypocrite and when someone breaks the law. You don’t know which one to be outraged about, the hypocrite-liar or the criminal when they all belong to the same group! You just know something is wrong.

  • Hewitt isn’t “confused”; he’s “repulsed.” That’s what he said, and I see no reason (in this instance) not to take him at his word. It’s teh gay! Oh ick, and in a public restroom no less!

    Stated otherwise, Hewitt can envision himself going to a prostitute for sex; it may be some sort of minor sin, but it’s not the end of the world. But homosexuality is an abomination.

    Which makes you wonder if Hewitt, like Craig, has some issues . . . .

  • What is it with these queers that they think they have to hide behind being conservative or religious? Do they know that their disgusting choice of life style is an abomination and feel the need to hide it? Out them all and treat them like the filthy perverts that they are.

  • Speaking for myself, I think soliciting a stranger in a bathroom is pretty damned repulsive, whether it’s homo or hetero. Reckless? You bet – even if Craig wasn’t married or a member of Congress.

  • Joe for Clark submitted his comment from a bathroom stall.

    Poor Huge Spewitt. Either he’s secretly turned on and jealous or scared to death to go to a public toilet.

    If the former, not suprised.

    If the latter, I refer Mr Spewitt to the nearest mirror. Why is it that the people (usually men) who are convinced gays are going to leap out at them if they aren’t on constant guard, are also the ones no one in their right mind (regardless of gender/preference) would touch with a ten foot roll of toilet paper?

    I guess it is all part of the larger pattern. Aaaaaah! THEY WANT TO SCREW US! Aaaaaah!! THEY WANT TO KILL US!

  • It is true that nothing actually happened. In reading the report, there is no mention of Craig actually saying anything to the officer, about sex or anything else. The more I think about it, the more I wonder how it is that some foor movement in a bathroom stall equates to lewd or disorderly conduct. Had the person in the stall next to Craig been a private citizen, and made a complaint against Craig, what would it have consisted of? “He touched my shoe with his shoe! He waved his hand under my stall.” Really not getting the whole lewd thing, and disorderly is nowhere to be found.

    If I’m Larry Craig, United States Senator, about whom the rumors have been swirling for years, why do I take any chances whatsoever that someone will read anything untoward in my behavior in a public bathroom? He was in Minnesota, after all, which I can’t imagine is a bastion of tolerance for anyone who even looks like he or she might engage in anything other than lights-out, missionary-style sex with one’s opposite-sex spouse.

    If Craig was engaging in reckless and repulsive behavior, what do you call David Vitter’s? My guess is that Vitter’s was a boys-will-be-boys and men-have-needs situation, but Craig, because he might be gay, is a pervert. This has to be the thinking, otherwise the GOP would have reviled and ridiculed a long list of GOP politicians, including more than a few who currently want to be president.

    So, why didn’t they clap Bill Clinton on the shoulders and give him the old “atta-boy” when he got caught with Lewinsky? Because he was so popular that there was nothing else to get him on.

    Time for a telethon: Send a Republican to Therapy; your country will thank you.

  • In Hugh Hewitt’s mind paying for sex is pro-business and therefore virtuous GOP behavior, but getting caught in a public restroom soliciting other men for free sex is just so …. George Michael!

    Given all the strange behavior coming out of the Northwest, when will someone write a book entitled “What’s the Matter with Idaho?”

  • I think you’re all following the wrong angle here. I’d guess the real difference here is that the governer of LA is a Dem and the governer of ID is a Rep…

  • Personally I have no idea why this is even a topic for anyone here. I am sorry for anyone who gets caught in any type of sex scandal because I don’t believe it is the business of anyone besides the guy’s wife. Let’s talk about the NSA or Gonzo or Iraq or anything important. Let’s re-focus. I am sure GWB is happy not to have the left wing blogs talking about why the AG resigned.

  • blue48pw: the real difference here is that the governer of LA is a Dem and the governer of ID is a Rep

    My thoughts exactly.

    Re Anne in #9, why on earth would Craig cop to the charge if he didn’t do anything?

  • And, what is the “…in a time of war” crud? So, it would be okay if he was cheating on his wife or propositioning someone in a bathroom if we weren’t at war?!?!
    I LOVE this little disclaimer that gets thrown in to right wing talking points. What on earth does THAT have to do with anything?

  • Given his past track record, I’m guessing Craig’s sexuality was a widely known secret in the upper echelon of the GOP. It’s surprising that no one from the right said, “Hey. Wait a minute. What did he actually do?” No. That came from TPM.

    This, in and of itself, is peculiar for repubs. Not only do they not attack each other, but they routinely defend each other long past the point of silly.
    Even with Mark Foley, their first impulse was to defend the guy – feeble as that defense was. Kurtz’s point is rather straight forward and an easy argument. Why wasn’t it made from anyone from the right in defense of a guy who’s behavior was measurably less icky than Foley’s? Is this a sea change in repub tactics, or is public revelation of Craig’s behavior something they’ve been dreading for a long time?

  • Personally, I agree with Joe for Cark, if by “queers” you mean “Republicans.”

    They revel in the dead overseas & rape the treasury at home. We surely should “treat them like the filthy perverts that they are.”

    I hope he wasn’t talking about homosexuals. Like Seinfeld said, not that there’s anything wrong with that….

  • Y’all are missing the point. Craig pled guilty to the charges, ergo, there can’t be much arguing about what actually happened there.

  • Having sympathy for the undercover cop… just how far does he have to go to satisfy everyone that the conduct was “lewd”.

    Did Craig have to liberate his member from its confines?
    Did the undercover cop have to soul-kiss Craig?

    If the cop kisses Craig, is it entrapment?

    Gad… in absence of a report, I’ll have faith the cop had pretty much “sealed the deal” for a tryst before slappin’ the cuffs on “the Gentleman from Idaho”.

  • Hewitt’s “in time of war” remark hearkens back to the ’50s when being gay was treated by rightwingers as a security risk — the theory being that if you were closeted and feared being exposed, you could be blackmailed by the communists into doing their bidding. Also, generally speaking, it meant you were weak-willed and immoral at a time when an embattled America needed men of strength and principle.

    I’m sure those are roughly the associations bouncing around in Hewitt’s skull, but I’d be curious (and probably amused) to hear specifically how he imagines it playing out in Craig’s case — how exactly his being gay makes him unsuitable as a public servant “in time of war”.

  • This reminds me of the unenlightened days when I was in college, and two guys in my dorm were arguing about whether lesbian behavior was more or less sinful than male gay behavior. (You will thank me if I don’t go into graphic detail.) I thought that the whole conversation was ridiculous, just as I think that Hewitt’s point is ridiculous.

    I don’t think that what Craig did (foot-tapping) should be illegal, and I don’t think that prostitution should be illegal. I think that the behavior of both Vitter and Craig fits the definition of “deviant,” but if that’s their kink, I would leave them alone.

    To quote an earlier post, “It’s the hypocrisy that people can’t stand.”

  • Vitter should have been forced to resign. Let him and his family patch things up and waa-da-do-dah without making judgments in the US Senate as a representative of our nation. I used to think being a senator meant you had to have a pretty clean record and not engage in illegal or immoral activities no matter how sorry you are afterwards.

    Sounds to me like the Senate has become some elite gentleman’s club where scandal and wrong doing are minimized and covered up for the sake of propriety. If Vitter is allowed to stay then why was Foley not allowed to stay. How do we know the hookers he was with were over 14 since the whole process is illegal anyway I doubt there are age requirements?
    It shouldn’t matter what his constituents want but what the senate will allow as acceptable behavior.

  • Hewitt isn’t the only one baying after Craig’s blood; there’s a whole pack of them — see TP. And none of them said “boo”, with Vitter. It *is* homophobia, plain and simple.

  • It’s probably the fact that Craig will be up for re-election in 2008, and they figure that if he resigns now, they can get someone appointed who could win in 2008; if Craig stays, he could be vulnerable to challenge.

    Vitter has an approval rating in Louisiana that is over 60% – that’s why they’re leaving him alone.

  • Wow, what a howling pack. Even homosexuals are capable of publicly obnoxious, to the point of illegal, behavior. It was a freaking public restroom. In an airport. With, who knows, little kids around (just to work in some potential pedophilia hysteria too). Maybe Hewitt’s comment was on the strong side, but this thread seems to be a pretty strong overreaction to an overreaction.

    I started to post something earlier on another thread but then the website seemd to go belly up for a bit, so I’ll say it here instead.
    Call me a fuddy-duddy, but I’m on the bashful side, and I have enough problems in public restrooms sometimes without having to worry about (in no particular order)
    people talking on cell phones
    singing panhandlers
    people pushing their feet under the stall divider (shiny black patent leather?)
    Senators engaged in fellatio (or whatever).

    I’ve been to nightclubs where there’s been hetero sex in the bathrooms and I’m not all that thrilled about that either. At least when people go to prostitutes or have affairs they generally “get a room”, so it’s private.
    “Getting a stall” is not the same thing.

  • If Hewitt thinks Craig’s behavior is more repulsive than Vitters, the he’s obviously never seen Vitters in a diaper.

  • Hewitt added, “I don’t believe him. Read the statement by the arresting officer. He must think the people of Idaho are idiots.

    Well you have to admit, if you were judging by the caliber of their congressional delegation it’s difficult to draw any other conclusion.

  • The more I think about it, the more I wonder how it is that some foor movement in a bathroom stall equates to lewd or disorderly conduct. — Anne #8.

    Would that be ” [..] spoor movement in a bathroom stall [..] ” you were referring to?

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