Wasting no time, McCain talks up debate challenges

The issue of presidential debates can be contentious, which is why there’s a Commission on Presidential Debates, which is supposed to take some of the politics out of it. The CPD has already picked four locations and dates (three for the presidential candidates, one for the VP candidates), which were selected long before anyone knew who the candidates would be.

One assumes John McCain will agree to the schedule, but today, he will renew talk about adding to the existing slate of events.

John McCain will use the first day of the general election to propose additional debates or joint forums beyond the three sanctioned for this fall, according to a McCain source.

At a town hall meeting and press conference in Baton Rouge later this morning, the Republican nominee will make his case for why there should be more engagement between he and Barack Obama.

The first presidential debate is scheduled for September 26th in Oxford, Mississippi, but McCain would like to set up a series of joint appearances.

One such meeting could be just down the road from where McCain is making his case. A coalition of business and civic leaders in New Orleans, which was denied a sanctioned debate, have scheduled a presidential forum for September 18th.

I suspect there are going to be lots of Dems who think this sounds great, and there are, to be sure, some upsides to the idea. But let’s not get hasty here.

This issue first came up in April, when McCain aide Mark McKinnon (who later stepped down from the campaign because he respects Obama so much) suggested the two presidential candidates are respectful and high-minded enough that they could travel across the country discussing the issues of the day in a series of debates.

Obama warmed up to the idea rather quickly.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said he’d be willing to campaign jointly with Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, and debate him in town-hall style formats.

“I think that’s a great idea,” Obama, 46, told reporters in Bend, Oregon, today as he campaigned ahead of the state’s May 20 primary. “Obviously we would have to think through the logistics on that, but to the extent that should I, should I be the nominee, if I have the opportunity to debate substantive issues before the voters with John McCain, that’s something that I am going to welcome.”

If there’s a perceived “stature gap,” debates help tremendously. Obama can stand toe-to-toe with McCain, and show that he’s more knowledgeable, about more issues.

But there are some real downsides to the idea. Noam Scheiber noted recently:

McCain has several big disadvantages vis-a-vis Obama. He faces a massive enthusiasm gap and will have trouble attracting large crowds. He’s in all likelihood going to be massively outraised and outspent, making it hard to get his message out. And, possibly as a result of the previous problem, he’ll be cast as a right-winger determined to continue George Bush’s policies.

The unmoderated debates would help him overcome all three problems. They’ll draw big crowds and generate lots of buzz. They’ll help him get his message out for free. And, just by virtue of appearing frequently at Obama’s side and having a civil debate, they’ll make him look much more moderate than the Obama campaign wants him to look.

I’d just add that I’m not even sure that Obama’s a better debater than McCain. Obama’s a better speaker, and a smarter leader, but debates aren’t necessarily Obama’s best format. He tends to think in paragraphs, while debates force participants to think in sound-bites.

Alex Massie argued a while back:

In the first place it flatters Obama’s already well-developed sense of himself as a statesman cut from a higher grade of cloth than that worn by other politicians these days. It appeals to his idea of “elevating” politics too. Thirdly, and relatedly, it’s easy to suspect that Obama could be weary of having to play the “gotcha” game favoured by the likes of Tim Russert, Chris Matthews and the rest of the blowhards who moderate “traditional” debates and, consequently, that he’d be open to anything that stymied their desire to referee the contest.

All true. And this no doubt helps explain why the McCain campaign started baiting Obama with the idea to begin with.

To be sure, these events wouldn’t necessarily be bad for Obama. If the discussions center on policy, Obama would no doubt welcome the opportunity to highlight the fact that on the issues people care about most, Obama is part of the mainstream and McCain isn’t. For that matter, McCain tends to come off great in town-hall meetings, but largely because no one’s there to point out how wrong he is. If he’s sharing a stage with Obama, McCain may enjoy himself far less.

But all things being equal, Obama might have more to lose. There’s a reason the McCain campaign is pushing the idea, and it’s not their love of spirited discourse.

FWIW…I trust Obama to handle it.

Bring. It. On.

  • The only tactic to use with Grampy is a baseball bat. Repeatedly. Maybe a pool cue, but only to poke him with till he goes thermonuclear in public.

    Obama needs to prove he really is smart. As my father used to say, the real mark of a truly smart person is to know where they’re stupid. Obama is not a good debater, and McCain doesn’t have the attention span to think in more than soundbites. For Obama to travel the country debating McCain is a godsend to McCain. Remember, Obama spoke to 40,000+ last night, inside and outside the venue. McCain spoke to less than 200. Giving him an audience is stupid.

    Never give a sucker an even break.

  • mccain’s campaign has been so inept at everything that i don’t put much stock in this: There’s a reason the McCain campaign is pushing the idea.

    imo any benefit to mccain from obama/mccain townhalls (and i do think that there would be some), would be out-weighed by how bad he would look when, in the same day as a townhall, obama draws an arena-size, energized crowd while mccain either does nothing or has a barely-a-pulse crowd at a small event as bad as last night’s.

  • Isn’t there a happy medium here? Like, instead of having several Town Hall meetings where McCain gets all the upsides of easy publicity, can’t they have just one unmoderated Town Hall where Obama gets to go toe-to-toe with McCain, and then stick to the 3 moderated debates?

    Because the upsides, I think, are too good to ignore, and the downside is that Obama obviously has more to risk.

  • I agree with CB and Cleaver (well after i got past the baseball bat part) that Obama should just let McCain enjoy his anonymity and let him try to win this thing 200 voters at a time. Don’t share the buzz.

  • It took five months to canvass the country—for a primary season. Obama needs every minute of the 68 days between the Democratic Convention and November 4 to address the people directly—and McMaybe knows it. He cannot defeat Obama’s message unless he hampers its delivery—and we’ve already seen how good the media morons are at moderating debates with meaningful questions.

    Stay with the three sanctioned events, and let McMaybe drown in Obama’s dust.

    No Free Airtime!

  • MsJoanne already wrote my first reaction, complete with my punctuation.

    ‘He (Obama) tends to think in paragraphs, while debates force participants to think in sound-bites.’

    It’s the thing I like best about Obama – he thinks in paragraphs. Simple solutions to complex problems are consistently wrong. But you make a great point – paragraphs don’t play well in debates. There is no room for nuance.

    So I agree – let’s not get hasty here.

  • What Ms Joanne said.

    I would add that Grampa Cranky has only had to stand up in front of wingnuts so far. The rest of us would like to see him up close and personal, just to let him know how much we loathe the man he’s been hugging all over.

    Bring. It. On.

    And watch for the stipulation that no camera ever takes a picture of Gramps from behind, if you know what I mean.

  • I would like to see Obama agree to three or four. Offer a set of rules. Make the offer public, so McCain has to justify any changes he wants.

    One of the problems with the Bush/Gore or Bush/Kerry debates is that Bush was the one who got to refuse, since he was the one who needed (wanted) the debates less. Thus you had rules that, for example, allowed candidates to take pot shots on the second rebuttal, for example, with the offended not allowed to respond. The most agregious example I can think of off hand was when Lieberman said Cheney made a lot of money thanks to government. Cheney, knowing Lieberman couldn’t respond again, simply said, “Government had nothing to do with it.”

    Even the Dem primary debates were set up for Republicans. How many times were we Dems forced to listen to questions about Illegal aliens, flag pins, raising taxes, etc.?

    What McCain wants is for Obama to say no, so he can lump it in with his “public financing” promise and suggest that Obama says one thing, but does another. And let’s be honest. McCain’s biggest problem is not money. His free media bias is worth billions.

  • If there’s a perceived “stature gap,” debates help tremendously. Obama can stand toe-to-toe with McCain,

    This is fine. But if you want them to eye to eye, I think you got to get McCain a Milk Crate to stand on.

    But other than this, the debates gotta be broadcasted in high def. You’ll really be able tell the difference between past and future then.

  • I am barely suspending judgement on this. McCain’s motivation is the hope of setting lose some viral zingers. And I don’t like the thought of giving an opponent an opportunity for traction. Still… It is definitely too early to make a decision of this import.

    Besides, Hillary still hasn’t made her graceful exit:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWaL1XnUPN0

  • Agree to meet with him once and then discuss doing it again, dependent on his proving he’s actually the leader of his party, and is able to tell the North Carolina Republican Party to pull inappropriate ads.

    Don’t let McCan’t define what is ‘fair’.

  • I wouldn’t mind a series of real debates, say mid-July to mid-August?

    4 debates, 2 each on foreign policy, 2 on domestic policy.

    And I don’t mean like the ridiculous ones we’ve seen. How about:

    30 minutes Obama uninterrupted
    30 minutes McCain uninterrupted

    30 minutes break to formulate responses

    15 minutes Obama uninterrupted (only responses to McCain’s points)
    15 minutes McCain uninterrupted (only responses to Obama’s points)

    Any thoughts?

  • Christ, CB you sound like a Catholic who accidentally enjoyed something. “Oh no, something good happened, we’re doomed!”

    I think the Obama Campaign should leap at the chance to shine as much light as possible on that naked mole rat.

    Look, if the guy who can hardly show up for his day job wants to set a grueling national tour, let him. He’ll look like death warmed over, frozen and partially defrosted by October. If McCaniac wants to stand next to Obama to improve his image among moderates, he’ll have to say moderate things which will enrage Das Base and then he’ll backpedal and the moderates will get pissed and so on, and so on.

    Popcorn?

  • After that horrendous “green slime” speech McCain made last night, his own advisors might be reconsidering the whole townhall idea themselves. Their boy is just going to get worse and they know it. Better for them if he just gives all his speeches behind a curtain so people won’t see how rapidly he’s declining. I’m not being mean here, just stating the bald facts. McCain will lose to Obama in any forum they might meet in, and that’s the truth.

  • The so-called debates of the last twenty years have really been just tiresome joint publicity events, nothing like real debates. How refreshing it would be to see something more substantive in this year’s general election.

  • Ohoian (13): I wouldn’t want to have McCain get the last 15 minutes. I do, however, like the idea of a prepared speech (5-10 minutes would be long enough). And I would prefer the subject be specific – Housing/credit crisis or maintaining/building military preparedness, for example. After that 2-3 minute rebuttals, where Cand. 1 challenges a point. Cand 2 responds. Cand 2 challenges a point. Cand 1 responds.

  • between he and Barack Obama

    AAAAAAARGH!

    Someone needs to inform this young man that “between” is a preposition!

  • I disagree – we want McCain & Obama side by side. A lot of voters need to unlearn what they think they know about McCain, especially the independents who think he’s a straight-talking maverick, and the Hillary supporters who think they can safely punish Obama by letting McCain win. People (especially Republicans) will be made to face the age difference. Obama will get to put McCain on the spot with McCain vs McCain quotes (and that won’t really happen outside face to face conflicts). A lot of people still think of Obama as empty rhetoric with no specifics, so they need to hear Obama get wonkish and detailed. Face to face debates is also the best way to compare specifics, and to stop McCain from trying to claim multiple positions on every issue. The media is not too bad at checking out comflicting claims, but they aren’t going to do it or trumpet the results unless someone is pushing the contradictions into their faces.

  • When someones down you don’t let them up you kick them in the face a couple times. McMaybenot is down, kick him in the teeth.

  • I honestly think the election will be over after the first debate. McCain will look like a cranky codger next to Obama, and Obama might even be able to rattle him.

    Also, McCain gets a love-in with the media for his independence and maverick ways — it’s been a long long time since someone stood next to him and challenged him on that. And Obama will.

    But I don’t think we need a travelling show — 3 or 4, with limited moderation and no stupid pundit questions.

  • I have no strong opinion on debates, but I do have another idea. Obama should shadow McCain on the campaign trail. Let McCain hit a city and have maybe a thousand folks, then let the Obama show roll into town and have 25,000 people show up. Imagine the local news having to cover McCain one day and Obama the next. It would be pretty funny.

  • Tom Cleaver said: For Obama to travel the country debating McCain is a godsend to McCain. Remember, Obama spoke to 40,000+ last night, inside and outside the venue. McCain spoke to less than 200. Giving him an audience is stupid.

    This is a very good comment. Strengths and weaknesses aside (I still think Obama would wipe the floor with McCreepy – and, god or the pasta dude willing, does go thermonuclear (please, please, please), the visibility factor is one to consider.

    To this point, I definitely defer to Tom. You’re right, m’man. No added visibility for McCain.

  • Anything to lessen the CPD’s grip on the debate schedule and format!

    I would like to see the League of Women Voters set the rules for at least one, and I’m willing to try an unmoderated format at least once. As for the advantages Hon. Sen. McCain might have, I’d say let him be the one issuing nasty innuendo, and utterly fallacious claims about national security, Iraq, Iran, Tax cuts, “wasteful” (non-DoD) spending et cetera. Not only are these things relatively easy to refute, I think the media has to to some modicum of fact checking now (maybe this is wishful thinking on my part).

  • I think the suggestion Ohioan made @ 13 is perfect.

    It puts them side by side, but plays to Obama’s strengths and McCain’s weaknesses.

  • I’m for Obama keeping as much and as flexible control of his own schedule as possible rather than committing to an insane number of debates and joint appearances.

    That said, if he takes McCain up on his suggestion, I’m not particularly worried about it. In 1996, the side-by-side images of vibrant young Bill Clinton and older than dirt, tempermental Bob Dole pretty well locked up the election without a word being said. Look for the exciting sequel, coming this fall to an election near you.

  • From the wiki

    Each debate had this format: one candidate spoke for an hour, then the other candidate spoke for an hour and a half, and then the first candidate was allowed a half hour “rejoinder.” The candidates alternated speaking first. As the incumbent, Douglas spoke first in four of the debates.

    That’s actually what the Obama camp is open to, and presumably what the McCain camp will completely reject unless they are total morons. I don’t expect Obama to accept the town hall style that McCain wants.

  • Giving [McCain] an audience is stupid. -Tom Cleaver

    I dunno. I’m not sure I don’t see the wisdom in standing him up in front of a crowd of 40,000 people when 39,800 of them support Obama.

    I disagree – we want McCain & Obama side by side. A lot of voters need to unlearn what they think they know about McCain… -N.Wells

    That’s a very good point. The differences between them will challenge people’s dissonance. How will they be able to accept McCain as a straight shooting maverick after contrasting him with Obama?

  • Dale said:
    I agree with CB and Cleaver (well after i got past the baseball bat part) that Obama should just let McCain enjoy his anonymity and let him try to win this thing 200 voters at a time. Don’t share the buzz.

    Too many Americans are going to look for any excuse to vote for the fatherly war hero over the black guy with the scary black friends. McCain needs to be exposed as the cranky, addled, un-curious, “I’ve got mine, screw the rest of you” elitist that he is.

    The corporate-controlled media isn’t going to do it. They’ll just play 10 second sound bites from each side, and keep telling the people about McCain’s “foreign policy expertise” and Obama’s “lack of experience”. Last night my head almost exploded when I heard one of NBC’s anchors say that now Obama “had to introduce himself to the American people” and he had to provide “more substance” to his campaign. It’ll be just like Tim Russert saying that the reason the media wasn’t saying anything about McCain’s crazy right-wing preachers was that there wasn’t any video of them.

    We here in the liberal blog echo chamber will watch YouTube videos of entire speeches from both sides. We’ll look up voting records and read position papers. But most of the people who will vote in November will do it based solely on what comes out of their T.V. screen.

    Obama needs a way to talk to the American people without the filter of the press-titutes in the corporate-controlled media. Obama needs to make McCain answer the questions that the press-titutes won’t ask. And McCain’s incoherence lack of understanding of both foreign and domestic issues needs to be exposed on live T.V., where it can’t be buried by his media fan club.

  • Meh. I can see the point of the nay-sayers on this, but I really don’t think Obama is dumb enough to concede any huge advantage to McCain. If he’s as smart as he’s been acting (and I think he is), Obama won’t just rush into this without some kind of counter-offer, insisting on a debate format that plays to his strengths. He’s been pretty vocal in his disappointment on how the democratic debates went, and he’s also been pretty pro-active in not giving the GOP and their surrogates even an inch. He would need to play this right, but he’s good at that.

    I’ll admit I’m biased in favor of having debates because, win or lose, I want the election to be direct and confrontational. We’re fighting to rescue our country from the grip of the right-wing extremists who have been ruling it for the past 30 or so years. That’s something we should do openly and under the sunlight, not by back-blading them.

    Still, with that said, if Obama sticks with his game plan and plays this right, it would be a huge win for him to be side-by-side with McCain in a direct confrontation, rather than the two of them sniping at each other with press releases.

  • I’m torn on this one.

    Debates aren’t Obama’s strong suit, while McCain thinks better on his feet with one-liners. And sharing the spotlight with him is a bad idea.

    At the same time, it would quickly highlight to contrasts between them in terms of age and demeanor, and as noted, raise Obama to the “experience” stature McCain seems to have been given by the media.

    Hmmm…

  • 3 is plenty. Someone in McCain’s organization recognizes what Hillary did. Obama can afford no mistakes. He is going to need the votes of many who will look for a reason to not vote for him. McCain, on the other hand, could forget his own name and it would hardly matter.

  • McCain: blackwater we can believe in. McCain: bombing we can believe in. McCain: coathangers we can believe in. McCain: corruption we can believe in. McCain: cronyism we can believe in. McCain: diebolding we can believe in. McCain: fascism we can believe in. McCain: lies we can believe in. McCain: retroactive immunity we can believe in. McCain: senility we can believe in. McCain: spying we can believe in. McCain: torture we can believe in. McCain: treason we can believe in. McCain: tyranny we can believe in. McCain: wars we can believe in.

  • I still think McCain might drop out for “medical” reasons and someone else will come swooping in to save the day…maybe Mitt, who would relish all of the attention of mutiple debates. Maybe it is just that I cannot believe that McCain is the best canidate they can come up with or maybe it I just don’t trust the Republicans. LOL. I hope I am wrong.

  • Ohioan said:
    I wouldn’t mind a series of real debates, say mid-July to mid-August?

    4 debates, 2 each on foreign policy, 2 on domestic policy.

    And I don’t mean like the ridiculous ones we’ve seen. How about:

    30 minutes Obama uninterrupted
    30 minutes McCain uninterrupted

    30 minutes break to formulate responses

    15 minutes Obama uninterrupted (only responses to McCain’s points)
    15 minutes McCain uninterrupted (only responses to Obama’s points)

    I think this is the foundation of a great format! Just be sure to allow the Corporate News Media to bring in their camera and not their clowns.

    Obama has a grasp of facts and reality – neither of which seem to be impeding McBush’s campaigning – that will destroy the media myth of McCrap as the ‘straight talking’ ‘foreign policy expert’.

    For the 1st time in my adult life, I actually believe that the (majority of) American people are ready for truth about issues and policies and will be able to see beyond the political slime.

  • I believe that McCain is trying to get Obama assasinated! He wants to have 10 townhall meetings and all will be able to have crowds present; maybe this is what him and Busch roughed up! I think Obama should be extremely careful from here on end because racisim will not go away so easy……..shameful

  • While I’m a bit torn about this, I agree with doubtful that having a house packed with excited Obama people would definitely play to Obama’s advantage. I went to one of his rallies here in Austin and it’s obvious the crowd knew exactly where it fit into Obama’s speeches, as we’re all on the same page. Added to that is the loud round of boos we’ll hear every time McCain tries cheap shots and lies, and we could really see a great event.

    And again, while this might help McCain look more moderate, I think it could have the opposite effect: McCain needs to demonize Obama, but that’s a lot harder when he’s standing right next to the guy with an Obama-friendly audience. McCain’s problem isn’t character, it’s policy; and so a debate could help highlight how wrong McCain’s policies are. But Obama’s problem is character, at least for the people who don’t know him. But McCain isn’t going to be able to smear Obama during these meetings (the crowd would tear him a new one), and so all these cheap shots about him lacking experience will fly right out the door. Even Republicans will be a bit perplexed as to why McCain isn’t attacking Obama for all the character flaws they imagine he has. I mean, if it’s obvious to these people that Obama is a Muslim sleeper agent, it’ll seem weird that McCain never mentions the fact.

    Again, I’m not sure this is a great idea, but I wouldn’t necessarily write it off either. Especially as Obama is a bright guy who could prep better for these. And as we’ve seen so far, he’s much more willing and able to throw jabs at McCain that he couldn’t in a Democratic debate. And if he pulled it off, they sure could be fun to watch. I’ll trust Obama’s instincts on this, but hope they think they can pull it off.

  • My old boss used to say that perception is everything. Having a townhall format where 90% of the people who show up are for Obama and they are booing McCain can deter many people from voting for a perceived loser…

    Besides, it’s not like that 90% majority will be swayed into changing sides.

  • I would think if they used the true Lincoln-Douglas format (one speaker has an hour, the second an hour-and-a-half, and then the first gets another half-hour) that totals three hours, it would be great. Of course, TV would never cover such a thing.

  • Since McCain has been heaping praise on Hillary; Obama should suggest that McCain meet for debates with Hillary Clinton. Hillary’s and Obama’s platform are pretty close to each other; therefor the differences will still be very noticeable.

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