We still have a long way to go

The latest Newsweek poll included a variety of interesting questions about Americans and religious matters, including the not-surprising fact that 91% of the public say they believe in God and almost as many (87 percent) say they identify with a specific religion. Although one in ten (10%) of Americans identify themselves as having “no religion,” only 6% said they don’t believe in a God at all. (Even fewer still, 3%, are self-identified atheists.)

But perhaps more importantly, Newsweek also asked poll respondents about modern biology.

Nearly half (48 percent) of the public rejects the scientific theory of evolution; one-third (34 percent) of college graduates say they accept the Biblical account of creation as fact. Seventy-three percent of Evangelical Protestants say they believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years; 39 percent of non-Evangelical Protestants and 41 percent of Catholics agree with that view.

This is not at all encouraging. These poll results come just a few months after an international study was conducted to measure which countries were the most accepting on evolutionary biology. Of the 34 countries involved, the United States ranked 33rd. Only Turkey ranked lower.

Researchers cited poor science education, the politicization of science in the U.S., and American religiosity for the poor showing. “American Protestantism is more fundamentalist than anybody except perhaps the Islamic fundamentalist, which is why Turkey and we are so close,” said study co-author Jon Miller of Michigan State University.

Whatever the explanation, I continue to wonder about the extent to which Americans understand how much this undermines national progress and competitiveness.

Back when the international report came out, PZ Myers made a compelling case that it’s time to start holding certain parts of society responsible for such wide-spread confusion, if for no other reason because change is so necessary.

Americans are being rolled in large numbers by an ideological ‘elite’ nested in our churches and in the Republican party — the reason we are falling so far behind in our understanding of the biological sciences is that political and religious authority figures are lying to the people and fostering ignorance, and Americans are dumbly falling for it…and the more ignorant they are, the more they depend on those false authorities.

Bruce Chapman, the president of the Discovery Institute, the leading proponents on intelligent-design creationism, argued at the time, “A better explanation for the high percentage of doubters of Darwinism in America may be that this country’s citizens are famously independent and are not given to being rolled by an ideological elite in any field.”

This is absurd. To hear Chapman tell it, “independence” leads people to believe things that are obviously untrue — and that’s a good thing that should be encouraged. Nonsense. People aren’t confused about modernity because of a maverick attitude; they’re confused because they’ve been misled by people like Chapman.

Now, I know what some of you are thinking. Even if most of society embraces bogus science, it doesn’t really matter; most Americans aren’t going to pursue careers in science anyway. A limited elite will understand biology, go into the field professionally, and come up with life-saving breakthroughs for the rest of us. Concerns are alarmist. After all, most Americans have been rejecting modern biology for a long time, and we’ve still been the premier nation for science for decades.

My response to this is two-fold. First, those limited elite will be less and less inclined to pursue science seriously when their teachers are intimidated into ignoring the underpinnings of biology and their school districts won’t purchase textbooks that convey accurate information. It’s a national problem that isn’t going away.

Second, eventually there’s a tipping point. The United States isn’t just trailing potential competitive rivals by a little; the gap is huge and growing. The competitive advantage the U.S. enjoyed is shrinking. At what point does the anti-science push become simply too much of a burden?

Last year, none other than the president used his State of the Union to tell the country that it’s time to take science seriously. “[W]e need to encourage children to take more math and science, and to make sure those courses are rigorous enough to compete with other nations,” Bush said.

On this the president may be an awful messenger, but the message is right — maintaining our position as a world leader in science will be impossible if the nation rejects scientific truths.

And as the Newsweek poll showed, we’re off to a bad start.

I’m surprised the Catholic numbers are that high. I thought the church was fully on-board with evolution.

  • Oh, come on!

    “It’s time to take science and math seriously.”

    Give me a break! It’s too late, like global climate change. I don’t expect these fools to ever wake up, no matter how loud an alarm you use. This is something we’re going to have to deal with over the next thirty years, just like poor/no savings, dependence on oil, disparaging of science & math, idiot leaders and more bull.

    This is who we are. This is it. Cycles of enlightenment and ignorance. The groups we’re dealing with enjoy pushing the stone up the hill, only to have it roll down again. They love it.

  • Those numbers are surprising because most of the truly religious (but not rabid evangelicals) see no inherent contradictions in the biblical depiction of creation and evolution. You know who I’d like to meet? Someone who thinks that both religion AND evolution are a crock. They’d have to be interesting.

  • Looks like it is the right time to start looking for property abroad.

    The Catholic numbers ARE surprising. Although my guess is that this really does suggest that efforts to indoctrinate beliefs, whetehr right or wrong, when directed towards young children are very successful.

  • The president may have encouraged us “take more math and science” (what about pronouncing “nuclear” properly?), but every talk show host in the country ridicules math and science constantly. This has to be the only country in the world in which Nobel Prize winners are asked such inane questions as this: “Now, without going into all that scientific mumbo-jumbo and gobbledygook, tell us in ten seconds or less about your life’s work.”

    I think everyone who wants to opine about matters scientific should first have to answer publicly a simple question, such as “What is a derivative?”

  • My response to this is two-fold.

    There’s a third response as well: Part of the reason the U.S. holds its position with respect to science in the world is that a great deal of research comes from public funding. If the public isn’t able to distinguish between good and bad science, if people think, “Why are we paying for X (e.g., evolution-based science) while ignoring Y (e.g., creationist Flood geology),” then we’re less likely as a nation to devote resources to real science. For example, funding for natural resources and the environment in 2005 was 1% less than in 2000, in constant dollars. If people don’t care about important scientific questions, or are actively encouraged to dismiss them, we’re in trouble.

  • “After all, most Americans have been rejecting modern biology for a long time, and we’ve still been the premier nation for science for decades.”

    My view is that the danger and damage lies not in the rejection of any particular theory or aspect of science – it is true that most people will never ‘use’ the theory of evolution in their day to day activities. The real problem is that convincing people to reject a theory simply because they find it unpalatable, even though all the facts show that it is true, opens the door to people ignoring reality in any and every circumstance. Why not dive into homeopathy? Astrology? Phrenology? Why not spend trillions of dollars to try and invent a perpetual motion machine? (“I just never bought into those laws of thermodynamics.”)

    This attitude can boil over into day to day activities, as well — and often does. The Bush administration illustrates the real damage that can be inflicted when people decide they have their own facts, whether you consider their ridiculous global warming stance or their fantasy views of Iraq.

  • Why then don’t we apply the same rules to biology as we do to global warming?

    A significant portion of the people think that man is less than 10,000 years old and that man and apes don’t share a common ancestor.

    I am willing to bet that most people reading this blog ARE NOT included in the ‘significant portion’ mentioned in the preceeding paragraph

    A significant portion of the people think that the record high temperature we had in the east coast in January is the result of global warming.

    I am willing to bet that most people reading this blog ARE included in the ‘significant portion’ mentioned in the preceeding paragraph

    Of course, if global warming has raised the average temperature by less than one degree then it is not likely that anyone but a statistician can see any difference in the weather between 2007 and 1997.

    If we believe in science and believe in evidence then why do liberals not want to face reality when they don’t like what reality says?

  • Bush may be turning off his faith based following, but the big question is “How do these voters wake up, and learn the dangers of blindly living in their fairy tale reality?”
    Recovery from fundamentalism requires the awakening of critical thought. Perhaps we need an outreach to these folks to show them that one can be both religious and intelligent.

    Evolution favors those who know it exists.

  • “After all, most Americans have been rejecting modern biology for a long time, and we’ve still been the premier nation for science for decades.”

    This is rather a dense notion. Look at the last names of the researchers of all those science papers. Many of them end in a vowel or are thought of as “not” American by the Tancredos of the US. In fact, many of them probably immigrated to the US as it was noted that over 1/2 of US grad students are NOT native born.

    The reason why the US has been good at science is because all that talent is coming from elsewhere (scientists are human too and like a comfortable life as much as the next person.)

    I know all too well. A lot of my classmates emigrated to the US (most of them pretty talented engineers.)

  • When I was in college, my chemistry professor was doing experiments to create life from inorganic matter. Of course, he was unsuccessful at that time.

    But I wonder if this is what the Fundies are most afraid of – that someday someone will be able to create life from inorganic matter. If man has the capacity to create life, what need would they have for the creation myths in the Bible? I think that this is why they are so afraid on stem-cell research – it is too close to the creation of life itself. So they diss science and push forward their intelligent design myths.

    One of the most important things our new Democratic president can do when he or she assumes office is to actively promote science, the teaching of science and the profession of science. This country needs to rise up out of the Dark Ages to which Bush and his Neanderthals have dragged us.

  • Although not one to defend evangelicals, some of their larger groups are making efforts to reduce global warming a priority issue.

  • If we believe in science and believe in evidence then why do liberals not want to face reality when they don’t like what reality says?

    Comment by neil wilson

    I’m trying, but I honestly don’t understand this whole comment. I get the impression that you don’t agree with and/or like liberals, but I’m just not seeing why. Unpack it a little, please. Elaborate.

  • According to the article:

    Percentage of the population accepting evolution:
    Iceland 80%
    Denmark 80%
    Sweden 80%
    France 80%
    Japan 78%
    U.S. 40%
    Turkey 25%

    According to CIA World Factbook the total estimated population:
    Iceland 299,388
    Denmark 5,450,661
    Sweden 9,016,596
    France 62,752,136
    Japan 127,463,611
    U.S. 298,444,215
    Turkey 70,413,958

    Some simple math tells ue that the number of people accepting evolution is:
    U.S. 119,377,686
    Japan 99,421,617
    France 50,210,709
    Turkey 17,603,490
    Sweden 7,213,277
    Denmark 4,360,529
    Iceland 239,511

    So the U.S. has 83% more people accepting evolution than Japan.
    The U.S. has more people accepting evolution than Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, France, and Turkey combined.
    The U.S. has more people accepting evolution than the entire populations of Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, and France combined.
    And for that matter, Turkey has more people accepting evolution than Sweden, Denmark, and Iceland combined.

    Perhaps we should rank the coutries by the number of people accepting evolution rather than by the percent of people accepting evolution?

    Considering we are a relatively young country in comparison to those ranked higher, and in that short history we have been known for accepting “the tired, the poor, the huddled masses, yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of the teeming shores” from these vary countries we are being compared to, I’d say we’ve done rather well.

  • We still have a long way to go — Do you mean “up” or “down”? If it’s up, it’s beyond our timescale. If it’s down, it’s too dismal to contemplate.
    I couldn’t track the actual poll questions, so I’m conjecturing as to their wording. Presumably they simply asked: ‘Do you believe in God?’, without specification. If I was asked, for example, “Do you believe in Everything?’ I’d probably want clarification. If I was asked ‘Do you believe in the interdependent origination of all phenomena?’ I’d definitely say ‘Yes’. If I was asked ‘Do you believe in a Hairy Old Man sitting in a Cloud Controlling Everything?’ I’d surely say ‘No’.
    Is there a consensus among the 91% as to the meaning of the ‘God’ they say they believe in? Wouldn’t that be kind of interesting to find out?

  • I find the poll, and results, suspect. It is, afterall, Newspeak Newsweek. As a caveat, though, I have [written]how we that haunt these tubes tend to live in a bit of an Ivory Tower – intelligent, well educated free thinkers aghast and somewhat unaccepting of the willful ignorance apparently all around us.

  • To Danf #1:

    Pope John Paul, before has death, thought that Evolution did not contradict the bible. Catholics traditionally are more concerned about the New Testament. This had a tendancy to alienate a lot of the fundamentalist Christians – even going as far as claiming that Catholics aren’t “true Christians”.

    The new pope has reversed all that. He rejects Evolution and it is apparent that he has the flock going back down the wrong path again. Too bad. Just when I started having a little hope…

  • I am willing to bet that most people reading this blog ARE included in the ’significant portion’ mentioned in the preceeding paragraphneil wilson

    I’ll take that bet!

    I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of people reading this blog understand that record high temperatures in a limited geographical area are not a “result of global warming” any more than record cold temperatures in a limited geographical area are a result of the next ice age.

    You can’t stick a thermometer outside your door and measure global warming, and I suspect that is pretty well known amoung the readers of this blog.

    How much are we betting by the way? And are you paying for the independent survey to determine which of us is the winner?

  • Danny,

    Your comment makes absolutely no sense. This isn’t a race. It is not a game to see who has more people on their side at the end. Icelanders do not vote for the members of Congress who work out the budget. The point is that a majority of Americans do not believe in evolution. It is the majority of Americans who determine the members of Congress who work out the budget. You can’t do cutting-edge science without a commitment to fund it. And if the majority of Americans aren’t committed to funding science that irritates their sensibilities, the US is all the worse for it.

  • I find the poll, and results, suspect. It is, afterall, Newspeak Newsweek. As a caveat, though, I have [written] how we that haunt these tubes tend to live in a bit of an Ivory Tower – intelligent, well educated free thinkers aghast and somewhat unaccepting of the willful ignorance apparetly all around us.

  • The point is that a majority of Americans do not believe in evolution.Chris

    Click the link and check on it. I think you’ll find that you are mistaken. Not only is that not the point, it isn’t even true.

    According to the article only 39% of americans reject evolution (which is actually an improvement from 48% over the past 20 years.)

    The point I was commenting on was the point that we are ranked 33’rd out of 34 countries in acceptance of evolution. That ranking was because the ranking was done by percentage of population. Had it been done by the size of the pool of potential scientists we’d have been ranked first by a HUGE margin.

    Considering our starting point, I’d say we’re making decent progress (9% decrease in people who reject evolution).

  • The willful ignorance is the result of people that are uncomfortable thinking for themselves. They prefer to have their opinions and thoughts spoon-fed to them. My extended family falls into this category. They don’t like to question authority (ie. their religious leaders, their political leaders) because they don’t want a view or a thought that isn’t mainstream. Also, they don’t have to take responsiblity for it either. If Pastor So and So said it, it must be true!

    My mother, sister and I all have very strong opinions that are usually in opposition to the rest of these folks. It makes for interesting family-gatherings to say the least…

  • “Recovery from fundamentalism requires the awakening of critical thought.”

    That statement bears repeating. Thank you, Kali.

    Children need authority figures. If authority figures teach them that an Old Man with a white beard created the world 9990 years ago, they’re going to believe it. If authority figures teach them to consider evidence intelligently and view the world in a rational way, they’re going to do it.

    Increasingly, our educational system is fragmenting learning. History teachers don’t hold students responsible for grammar on tests, English teachers don’t care if information in an essay is correct, as long as the grammar is right. Evolution doesn’t exist in Sunday School, but it’s real in Biology class on Monday, and parents can’t or won’t be bothered with looking at their kid’s textbooks to help them learn in a consistent way.

    PS I wonder how many of the believers in Creationism lied about being college graduates?

  • To Danny #14:

    So the U.S. has 83% more people accepting evolution than Japan.

    By your same logic, the U.S has 151,023,535,more people (about 500%) that DON’T accept Evolution than Japan. See? There’s lies, damned lies, and statistics.

  • An article in the paper just this morning said that local science labs are already having trouble hiring qualified scientists. I hope everyone likes herding goats because eventually that’s all we’ll be able to do if the anti-science crowd isn’t brought to heel.

    Welcome back to the Bronze Age, everybody!

  • “…it’s time to start holding certain parts of society responsible for such wide-spread confusion…”

    There are lots of interesting ways to do this, beginning with providing the medical fruits of science only to those who will agree– in writing– that science, not religion, is responsible for such advances.

    If people balk at such a heinous requirement, they are certainly free to suggest alternative explanations, but that doesn’t mean that scientists must accept them.

  • … I continue to wonder about the extent to which Americans understand how much this undermines national progress and competitiveness.

    Americans don’t understand because they don’t think of it in those terms. It’s not like evolution-deniers think, “If undermining national progress is the price to pay for my comforting delusion, I’m willing to pay it.” In order to use the cost of ignorance as a debate plank, you first have to convince someone that they are able to make this judgment.

    …they’re confused because they’ve been misled by people like Chapman.

    What’s strange is that DI supposedly accepts 90% of evolution; they just believe that natural processes needed a supernatural jump-start. Which is pretty much what the Catholic Church currently believes. I could get along with these people. If you accept that life on Earth shares a common descent and that new forms arise from old, it doesn’t bother me if you believe that such forms are brought about by Providence for some mysterious purpose. (As long as you don’t claim that Providence can be shown scientifically.)

  • I think believing/not believing in evolution has a lot less to do with competitiveness than the fact that ours is the only country in the flipping advanced world not to have converted to the metric system, years ago.

    Americans are dumb about a lot of things, not just religious ones. And don’t get me started on the American love for the penny and the dollar bill.

  • This is absurd. To hear Chapman tell it, “independence” leads people to believe things that are obviously untrue — and that’s a good thing that should be encouraged.

    Fine. Let’s convince those “independent thinkers,” that the force of gravity can be overcome by thinking happy thoughts. While they’re standing on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.

    Thanks for this post CB, my usual reaction to people who don’t accept science is Piss off you ignorant git. But you give a good run down of the dangers of willful ignorance to innocent bystanders.

    Danny @ 14. Looks you’re using Karl Rove’s The Math (TM), dude.

  • I can’t wait for the arrival of faith-based engineering!

    I can see it now, a gathering of Evangelicals at a new bridge…

    “We dedicate this wonderful new bridge for our town. we know it will serve our community well because the designer is a good man and a man of God…we believe in him and pray for God to sustain this new construction.”

    Personally, I think more people would rather that someone studied the math and science of mechanical engineering and crunched the numbers. Funny how people think scientists and engineers can get it right when building stuff, but the biologists, chemists, and geologists are just plain stupid.

  • So can we have liberals stop bashing atheists who come out of the closet and say that religion is bad? Because, in fact, saying it’s okay for people to believe in things that are irrational is a slippery slope and allows for this kind of thing?

  • “Seventy-three percent of Evangelical Protestants say they believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years…”

    Gah! They think it’s Evolutionary Science that contradicts them. Anthropology, the study of human societies, says that humans came to the Americas 17,000 years ago. And that’s not the earliest date provided. Pretty damn hard to “come to America” 17,000 years ago if the world is only 10,000 years old.

    Try sometime to list what Science says is the age of:

    The Universe
    Our Galaxy
    Our Sun
    Our Planet
    Our Moon
    The planetary crust of Earth
    Life on the Oceans
    Life on the surface
    Reptiles
    Dinosaurs
    Mammals
    Primates
    Pre-humans
    Humans
    Human tool use
    Human societies
    The first Humans in the Americas
    Human cities
    The Jewish People

    Every one is going to blow away the conceits of the Creationists.

  • Danny (#14), prepare yourself for some truly shocking news: Although the MOON is only 1/28th the size of the earth, it is FARTHER AWAY!

    I used to wonder every so often what it must have been like to work in the ancient world’s Alexandrian Library. Down the hall are people (e.g., Eratosthenes) accurately calculating the distance to the sun, the size of the moon, the circumference of the Earth, etc. Out in the street are people (and armies) who believe, well, in Egyptian mythology. I no longer wonder what it must have been like; I just look around.

  • LOL at nemodog.

    I have had conversations with people who think all “scientists” are bad (atheists). So far I’ve resisted the urge to run riot through these folks homes, throwing away all the creations brought to them by the wicked scientists.

    “You don’t want this nasty old heart medicine. A SCIENTIST made it. Mwahaha.”

    Of course, if you ask: So, if science is evil/deceitful does that mean you reject things like heart medicine? What about disease resistant crops? They say no.

    That’s why I tend to think a lot of that crowd are just parrotting and if you said OK, you win, no more science at all (with a list of what that would mean) they’d scream blue murder.

  • Although the MOON is only 1/28th the size of the earth, it is FARTHER AWAYEd Stephan

    Farther away than what? Than the Sun? Than any of the other planets? Than any stars? (I think you’re mistaken).

    The only things that the moon is farther away than are debris and man made satellites. And I’m not sure how that relates to the discussion at hand.

    My point is that those people down the hall still exist, and that we have more of them here in the U.S. than most of the places ranked above us in the report CB refered to. Sure we have more of the people out in the street as well, but we don’t really have any shortage of people who acknowledge science.

    Additionally, the number of people who reject evolution has decreased over the past 20 years from 48% to 39%. Sounds like progress to me.

    We have a large

  • I think believing/not believing in evolution has a lot less to do with competitiveness than the fact that ours is the only country in the flipping advanced world not to have converted to the metric system, years ago — Susan, @28

    The metric system was started during the French Revolution. It’s an idea conceived by the godless rabble. Can’t have that in US 🙂

  • Marko (17): The new pope has reversed all that. He rejects Evolution and it is apparent that he has the flock going back down the wrong path again. Too bad. Just when I started having a little hope…

    Hey Marko, did you hear that last week the pope came out to declare unequivocally that hell is an actual place where people will experience everlasting torment after they die (assuming they’re not good Catholics, I suppose)? No shit! He actually said that, officially. How much of a dunce would a person have to be to listen to a dipshit like the pope? Infallible? Yeah, right!

    All religions are cults.

  • Nemodog,

    “I can’t wait for the arrival of faith-based engineering!”

    You might not have to wait long: We’re already in the midst of a faith-based war. We have a faith-based approach to the “myth” of climate change. Personally, I can’t wait for faith-based emergency rooms…

    As an aside: If you wanna have some fun, rent the movie “Idiocracy.” As soon as the movie is over, click on Fox News. You’ll swear you’re watching outtakes from the film. You won’t know whether to laugh or cry.

  • I’m not denying these numbers are disgraceful but I’d like more detailed info about the questions asked. Dollars to donuts the situaton is more complex than this kind of poll makes it appear.

  • This is definitely not good news. What the study shows is that we Americans are basically ‘blissfully ignorant’ and I guess given the status of current foreign relationships many would say arrogant with it.

    I suspect the problem is linked to the key American value of needing to be entertained then Las Vegas styled mega churches and their slick infomercial have become the way for those who have not learnt the skill of critical thinking. Certainly blind acceptance of religious doctrine by its very nature requires very little brain power compared to the effort required in learning the skills of scientific inquiry.

    This is proof that Americans are dumb -ing down and that has to be a worry. The sad thing is we Americans are not good with proof we are too ignorant. Something I suspect people outside the USA, who have developed this knowledge and skills have been noticing for some time, with increasing alarm. Outside the USA, many Americans are increasingly finding they just don’t fit in and many have difficulty understanding why.

  • I think we not only need to step up the science classes but have a 9 week course on evolution in junior high and high school. Any kid that doesn’t pass gets to repeat the class. Evolution is a fact.

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