Webb v. Bush — the context

December 5, 2006

It’s been a week since we learned about the president and Sen.-elect Jim Webb (D-Va.) having a little dust-up over the war in Iraq. If you’re just joining us, Bush approached Webb at a White House reception and asked, “How’s your boy?” (Webb’s son is a Marine serving in Iraq.) Webb said, “I’d like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President,” to which Bush responded, “That’s not what I asked you.” Webb ended the conversation with, “That’s between me and my boy, Mr. President.”

I’m a little surprised by the attention this continues to receive, including multiple pieces from prominent columnists (some less honest than others), and feature stories about “what it all means.” Apparently, DC just isn’t used to these kinds of personal confrontations.

Regardless of whether you think Bush was wrong (picked the fight, said, “That’s not what I asked you”) or Webb was wrong (he was brusque and shouldn’t have gone to the WH event), additional context sheds some helpful light on the subject.

[A]ccording to Rep. Jim Moran (D-VA), Bush was told that Webb’s son had a recent brush with death in Iraq and was warned to be “extra sensitive” when talking to the Sen.-elect. ThinkProgress yesterday spoke with Moran’s office and confirmed the congressman’s statement, first reported by hcc in VA:

Not only did Bush know about it, he was specifically briefed on the incident before meeting with Webb, and was cautioned to be extra sensitive in speaking with Webb about his son.

After such a briefing, Bush perhaps shouldn’t have been so surprised about Webb’s unwillingness to chit-chat about his son.

That does make some difference, doesn’t it?

Webb had steered clear of the president — Webb skipped the presidential receiving line and declined to have his picture taken with the president — but Bush sought him out. After having been briefed and warned about being “extra sensitive,” the president nevertheless asked, “How’s your boy?” and unhappy with the response, said, “That’s not what I asked you.”

In this context, the president looks even worse. Bush picked at an open wound, on purpose, after being cautioned not to.

Some have characterized this as one father talking to another. I don’t think so. This was Bush’s boorish charm on full display.

I interpret it as clueless Bush thinking he WAS being “extra-sensitive”, sorta going out of his way to hunt Webb down and inquire about “the boy” (to show he cared, I assume), and when Webb didn’t answer the right way and show an appreciation of his sincerity, Bush, rather than getting the hing, repeated the question, trying to score the point that he really really really WAS being “extra-sensitive” – only that mean old Jim Webb refused to play along. It clearly was all Jim Webb’s fault because he wouldn’t let Bush feel his pain.

  • Bush is nothing more than an adolescent bully picking on someone he considers vulnerable. He couldn’t beat the Iraqi’s into submission over the last three or four years, and the country just took away his majorities in congress, so he figured he’d just pick on Webb instead.

    Bush, apparently, is not used to someone not kissing his ass.

  • Bush picked at an open wound, on purpose, after being cautioned not to.

    The picking would be the “That’s not what I asked you,” not the “How’s your boy?” The latter is a natural question to ask, especially after hearing about a traumatic event. The former is perhaps the least appropriate thing to say, short of wishing outright harm for Webb’s son.

    “We all want them home,” would’ve been a nice response.
    “No, Jim, I really mean it. Is he doing okay?” would’ve gotten the message across, too.
    “I understand if you don’t want to talk about it” shows some empathy, though perhaps that’s holding Bush to too high a standard.

  • I think this exchange brilliantly illustrates how thuggishly entitled Bush really is. A more distinguished President would have deferred with respect when approaching a parent who is dealing with a loved one in war. But no, tough-guy Dubya fires back, “That’s not what I asked you.”

  • The best and most charitable gloss I can give the interaction is this:

    The Dry Drunk got miffed because Webb didn’t follow the script he had cooked up in his coke-raddled head. He’d ask Webb about his son and then they’d have a nice heart-to-heart chat about kids and BushBaby would have further proof that he was a swell, caring, culture of life, support the troops, bipartisan kind of guy.
    When Webb didn’t say “Oh he’s fine,” or what ever Bush had decided he would say, he broke the rules because that’s not what Bush wanted to hear.

    Those of us who’ve had the pleasure of dealing with addicts know a lot of their anger is sparked by things that wouldn’t make a normal person angry. But normal people don’t think the solar system revolves around their heads. People who fail to acknowledge the supremacy of the addict and dance to his tune must be smacked into line. Hence: “That’s not what I asked you.”

    Shorter version: Bush is a dick and I wish Webb had popped him one.

  • No doubt the reichers blame Webb for the incident since, apparently, Webb wasn’t supposed to editorialize when given the opportunity. Bush only asked about one kid he recklessly threw into harm’s way, not the entire corp. Webb’s response about getting “them” out of Iraq must have jarred Bush too much so he lapsed into his mother’s pompous, supercillious way of dealing with people she considers underlings.

    Not that anyone here hasn’t noticed, but the whole Bush family are fucking assholes.

  • The additional bit of context that would really illustrate what happened is Bush’s tone. W’s trademark condescending snear and his usual Ugly American tactic of talking even louder when he thinks someone doesn’t understand were probably in evidence in the exchange. I get the feeling that the reason Webb felt like he wanted to slug W wasn’t so much about what was said but the manner in which it was said.

  • I am reminded of the odd episode in which Bush thought it would be a good idea to give Chancellor Angela Merkel a shoulder rub – he thought he was being nice. “That’s not what I asked you”, is reversion to type.

  • This is really starting to sound as if Boy George II thought he was being “extra sensitive” to Webb. Though I imagine BG2 would have taken such direction from Jim Moran as little more than a slight in and of itself. After all, isn’t he always “sensitive” to parents of our service people?

    So he comes up to Webb determined to demonstrate to one and all just how “extra sensitive” he can be. Asks the question (I suppose it’s too much to expect the Malapropos-in-Chief to get out “I hear your son was in a very serious incident in Iraq. I hope he’s doing alright?”.) and is shocked, shocked I say, to get back an answer that has nothing (he imagines) to do with what he asked.

    At which point he goes into Dry Drunk Frat Boy Egocentric Narcicist mode and attempts to put down the fool in front of him.

    And fails miserably. 😉

  • Apparently all we have is a less-than-verbatim transcript of the Bush/Webb conversation. And that seems to be merely a Rorschach test of sorts. It seems most people interpret that transcript how they want to interpret it, based in large part on whether they see Bush or Webb as the good guy.

    If we had a video and audio record of the exchange, we would have much more information – tone of voice, pauses between words, facial expressions and other body language, etc. – and that additional information almost certainly would help us figure out who was the ass and who was the innocent victim.

    Having said all that, I’m convinced Bush was the ass. That’s just the kind of guy he is. And Webb wouldn’t be rude unless he was provoked.

  • Bush’s comment to Webb is a variation on the theme of massaging the German Chancellor’s back: an unwanted gesture made by a village idiot is not appreciated. -Kevo

  • So he comes up to Webb determined to demonstrate to one and all just how “extra sensitive” he can be.

    Bush showed he is easily put out at any real or imagined affront to his own precious feelings.

    Mission accomplished!

  • I think George W. Bush has made a lifetime career of using the power of the Bush name to bully and lord over fundamentally subservient people. Dubya seems incapable of influencing those who are less impressed with authoritarian figures, and therefore chooses to marginalize them instead. When that fails, a preemptive strike is warranted to remind the subject of his/her place. Webb’s resistance to bow at the feet of His lord incensed Bush, and given Bush prior knowledge of Webb’s “weakness”, he sought to exploit it.

    The trouble is, most people think it is unseemly to use such heavy handed tactics when asking a parent–whose son is fighting for our country–“How’s your boy?” For Bush to do this attempted take-down in front of a audience of freshman lawmakers is also telling, because it implies that the message was for more than just Mr. Webb.

  • I agree with moron #11 … um, I mean comment #11, not the eleventh moron in this thread … um … yeah.

    Anyway, knowing the context would end the debate and prove who the initiator of the assholery was. But c’mon … this is classic Bush trying to be the Alpha Male.

    He mocks PhDs and blind reporters, makes up nicknames for everyone, invades the personal space of the leader of Germany, and acts like a flaming fuqtard to a guy whose son was almost killed in an unnecessary war being ran by unqualified people.

    Hell, if given the chance, Bush would probably piss on every tree from DC to Kabul in some desperate attempt to prove it was all his territory.

    Webb’s refusal to acquiesce shows me that he (Webb) thinks respect is earned, not just given, and that he’s going to do things a bit different than expected.

    And those are very, very good things.

  • I still can’t understand how “I’d like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President.” is considered rude by anyone. Doesn’t EVERYONE want that ultimately? Even those who want them to “accomplish their mission” would want that to happen quickly and for them to return home safely… right?

    WTF? Even with the election gains I still feel like I’m in a Twilight Zone episode half the time. Maybe things will return to normal in a month, when we’re really in office.

  • I agree with Chief Osceola. Webb said did nothing wrong. What do all the inside-the-beltway, stick-to-the-script assholes want him to say? Is it something like, “He didn’t killed yesterday so he’s okay. I hope your girls are enjoying their partying in South America in spite of the purse snatching.” ?
    Actually, he’d be a man after my own heart if he did say that.

  • I agree w/ moron @#11 that a transcript does not allow certain assessment of the exchange. Since I first read about this incident, two things stick with me about my own reaction to it:
    1) It must be my New England “ear” that intuitively responds negatively to Bush’s calling Webb’s son, his “boy.” I suspect that, for many, “How’s your boy?” is a perfectly acceptable means to inquire after the well being of another man’s full grown son who is serving his country in a very hostile place. But, to this cultural ear, it sounds flip and way too familiar. There is no acknowledgement before the inquiry of either respect for the service of Webb’s son or for the obvious danger in which he serves. Hence, I’m put off before (and regardless of the tone of ) the “That’s not what I asked” coup de grace.
    2) Washington is even more self-absorbed with its courtier culture than I realized. I frankly do not care if someone has blunt words for the President. He needs to hear blunt words. Webb was not profane, and I have not heard his behavior described as loud or out of control. He spoke frankly to the POTUS, who is JUST A MAN afterall. The Presidency – despite the views of Bush’s imperious mother – is neither an entitlement conferred by destiny or God nor an entitlement to have boorish behavior simply accepted by others out of respect for the office. Bush likes to strut to prove he is a man, and the DC courtiers like to swoon before him. But in truth, he does not know how to act like a man when someone actually treats him like one (as Webb did). All the cases of the vapors going around Washington expose these folk for the parasites they truly are.

  • I think Grumpy (#3) and moron (#11) are objective and fair. The tone, body language, facial expression — all are important in drawing a conclusion about the incident. I also agree that asking about Webb’s son in not insensitive or offensive, but the scolding was.

    Thing is, Bush has such a long record of brat-like, disrespectful behavior that an incident like this doesn’t amount to much.

  • still can’t understand how “I’d like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President.” is considered rude by anyone. — Chief Osceola, @ 16

    No, no. *That* bit is not what the right is considering “rude” and “boorish”. That, according to them, simply proves that, despite all his literary achievements, Webb’s not as literate as he’d have us think (he was asked a question about a single person, but responded using a plural pronoun. George Will stressed that with a [sic] after “them”).

    No, what has their knickers in a twist is response to the taunt, the “that’s between me and my boy”. Which has been — correctly — interpreted as: “none of your beeswax, so butt out”

    TuiMel, @18. It’s not your “New England ear”. Even in the South (or, at least, in my neck of southwest VA) it’s not how anyone other than a close friend of the family would ask after one’s children — you ask either by using “son”, or (better) by name. “Boy” (or “kid”) does carry a somewhat negative connotation, unless used by someone from whom affection can be expected (ie, it’s perfectly OK for *Webb* to have used the term). By perverse contrast, it’s perfectly OK to address a total stranger as “son”, given a big enough age difference 🙂

    In fact, in the South, “boy” can be a hand-grenade, because that’s how all black males used to be addressed (irrespective of age), suggesting that they were less than individuals with names and personalities. And both Bush and Webb are just old enough to know it. And both are from the South…

  • “And both are from the South…” – libra

    BG2 from the South, Hah. I’m a transplant to Virginia and even I know that BG2 is really from Maine.

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