When a momentary facial itch rises to national significance

April 19, 2008

There comes a point at which the rank stupidity of campaign coverage makes one wonder why anyone would even want to run for national office in the first place. When Barack Obama detractors spent yesterday afternoon speculating over whether he’d flipped Hillary Clinton off, it was just such a time.

This one is truly mind-numbing, and enough to suggest a few too many political observers might want to stop sniffing glue. Obama was giving a speech, and ironically enough, commenting on the need to move beyond trivial distractions. Apparently, during his remarks, he had an itch on his face. He scratched it. This, to hear some tell it, was Obama’s way of giving Clinton a one-finger salute.

John Cole noted one far-right observer who insisted that Obama “gave Hillary the finger,” and one Clinton supporter who said he “cannot believe” the Obama campaign is promoting the clip of the senator’s speech, since he “flips off Hillary Clinton in the video.”

This was not simply limited to otherwise-bored bloggers. MSNBC and FoxNews.com also treated this as a news item of note. In fact, MSNBC asserted that Obama “made an unfortunate gesture.”

I know I shouldn’t be surprised, and yet, I never thought we’d reach the point at which momentary facial itches would rise to the level of national significance, worthy of broadcast to a national television audience.

Two other quick thoughts. First, in case anyone actually cares about the “substance” of the accusation, Obama did not, in fact, extend his middle finger to anyone. There’s a photograph of the momentary scratch from a different angle, and he used two fingers, not one. (Sometimes a scratch is just a scratch.)

Second, when MSNBC anchor Contessa Brewer was done giving this story airtime on national television, she concluded, “Hey folks, they don’t call this the silly season for nothing.”

No. Sorry. If Brewer were highlighting the story to suggest that ridiculous bloggers obsess over meaningless minutiae — in other words, if she put this on the air to demonstrate how stupid the “controversy” was — it would merely be a brief waste of airtime.

But that’s not what happened here. Brewer treated this as a legitimate issue, worthy of a mention on national television. By tacking on, “They don’t call this the silly season for nothing,” Brewer seems to be apologizing for her own broadcast.

That’s a cop out, and a weak one at that. If the story is foolish, why is MSNBC airing it?

IMHO, that was scratching an itch, but if it had been a one-finger salute it would have been a pretty good way of refuting the charge of being an elitist.

  • He flipped her off. How can we know? He claims to be a teacher. You learn not to use the middle finger to scratch because students are as tuned into such things as the news media apparently are. Since professors learn not to do this sort of thing, it is more likely to be deliberate. Other evidence? The first finger is stronger than the middle finger, so scratching with it is more likely. When the middle finger is used, the accompanying fingers are typically also extended — using the middle finger to scratch with the others bent down would be uncomfortable (requires additional muscle action) under normal circumstances.

    For me, the question is whether it is unconscious or conscious. I can’t believe he would consciously flip her off knowing that his every gesture is being captured on video. On the other hand, when one is feeling hostility and talking about an opponent, the appearance of a mood-congruent gesture arising from that combination seems more likely.

    Those who are claiming that his gesture is just chance scratching are obviously unaware that gestures such as scratching also have significance for those who study body language. For example, people really do scratch their heads when confused or in a quandary. Scratching isn’t a chance movement either. It is more likely under certain circumstances, than others.

  • Mary,
    Can you read? Click a link?

    There’s a photograph of the momentary scratch from a different angle, and he used two fingers, not one.

  • “That’s a cop out, and a weak one at that. If the story is foolish, why is MSNBC airing it?”

    Because they’re part of the problem.

    Duh.

  • Mary said:
    He flipped her off. How can we know? He claims to be a teacher. You learn not to use the middle finger to scratch because students are as tuned into such things as the news media apparently are.

    Mary, you are being more moronic than usual. Didn’t you even read to the bottom of CB’s post before flying off the handle?

    If you had read the post, even down to the sixth (out of ten) paragraph, you would have found a link that demonstrated that Obama used two fingers.

    http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=3141

    Now maybe, in your own little world, you will decide that Obama was making a “dog whistle” signal that only the liberal elites would recognize — a two finger salute, which is the British equivalent of a raised middle finger. But as far as I’m concerned, your hyperventilating outrage at nothing is funny and sad. You strain at gnats and swallow camels because that’s the only way you can get the real world to fit your preconceptions.

    SteveT
    (member of MoveOn.org)

  • And how about Obama doing the “dirt off my shoulders” Jay-Z routine. That will go very nicely with your “typical white person”. Good luck in the general, you are going to need it. What was he smoking? This is all over the place and will not go away.

  • Sorry, I didn’t read closely enough — I’ve gotten used to skipping the pro-Obama noise here and went straight to the video.

    If the point is that the video was inaccurate, shouldn’t that have been the focus of the post instead of buried in later paragraphs? Upon re-reading, I see that the point of this post is that the Clinton people are stupid for suggesting that Obama’s people shouldn’t be using this clip, since he flips off Clinton. Unless someone knows about the other video, they may THINK he is flipping her off. If you view the clip and it looks like he is flipping off Clinton, it does seem wrong for Obama’s campaign to be using that version of it, especially if another version is available, as it apparently is or it wouldn’t be available to exonerate him. The appearance of flipping her off has no place in a campaign video, whatever the reality of his scratching.

    If Obama has campaign staffers who are silly and adolescent enough to think it is cool that Obama appears to flip off Clinton, and that this will appeal to undecided voters, then that is a mistake of his campaign. This seems like another Rorschach test — those of you who like Obama won’t see the harm in using such a clip and may even find it funny. There is no reason on earth why Clinton supporters should find it funny. Obama should step in and ask his staff to behave like adults in this situation.

    Carpetbagger — using this to show that Clinton people are petty and stupid is beneath you too. You can’t complain about the press doing this when you do it yourself.

  • What’s really sad is there was an episode of Seinfeld that dealt with just this sort of “unfortunate gesture.” It begins when a waitress scratches her nose, and George thinks she’s flipping him off. From there he thinks everyone is flipping him off. Of course, the whole point of Seinfeld was taking the trivial and playing it out to absurd lengths. One would hope the point of our political discourse was rather more lofty than that.

    One really would hope that.

  • Mary, we are worried about your powers of perceptiion. How many fingers am I holding up?

  • “A few months ago, Obama was riding his talents. Clinton has ground him down, and we are now facing an interesting phenomenon. Republicans have long assumed they would lose because of the economy and the sad state of their party. Now, Democrats are deeply worried their nominee will lose in November.” D.Brooks NY Times today.

  • Now matter how you feel about Obama no one can say definitively that he did or didn’t flip off Hillary. Anyone who has been in high school knows that that is the way you flip people off when you don’t want to get caught but you want to make a point to your friends.

    If you watch some of the longer versions of the tape, there are many versions posted around the web from several different angles, you’ll notice that he uses a lot of gestures that are very deliberate, brushing the shoulders, twisting the knife, etc. All of them are used to attack Hillary. So, did he give her the finger? Can’t prove it one way or the other, but in the context of the rest of his remarks it seems highly likely to me.

  • Mary

    When Clinton People act stupid, blame the Clinton people for acting stupid.

    And when the Clinton People are reading off the same script as the good folks at Red State, you just gotta admit that they are acting Stupid.

  • Personally, the idea that he was subtley flipping her off would only ADD to my support for Obama.

    If ridiculous trivialities are going to be the only things getting talked about in this campaign, why wouldn’t a saavy politician want to start intentionally feeding the slavering media things to chatter about? I can’t think of a better way to combat the whole “elitist” BS than having the same talking heads blathering about whether or not he gave the finger.

    I might even decide to stir the pot by pointing out that earlier in the speech, he scratched his face using his pinkie(!), so any use of his central digits, well … you can decide for yourself.

    However, I live in the world outside of Beltway Media Madness, or Type 2 Clinton Derangement Syndrome (in which victims are deranged FOR Clinton).

    So, much as it might gladden my heart if he HAD been giving the finger, I can admit that he was not, and that spending any amount of network time speculating on it is beyond “silly season”, it’s pathetic.

  • If Obama has campaign staffers who are silly and adolescent enough to think it is cool that Obama appears to flip off Clinton, and that this will appeal to undecided voters, then that is a mistake of his campaign.

    And if you weren’t the mistress of projection and self-delusion, you’d be emotionally functional.

    Neither scenario even registers on the scale of likelihood.

  • Which finger do ballplayers use to scratch their crotches when they are on TV – wouldn’t the answer to that question settle this?

  • the clinton people are petty and stupid – just look at the campaign shillary is running.

    Why does anyone think that sleeping with bill in the WH and on trips to bosnia qualifies shillary to be president?

  • As I posted late last night on another thread, I know a few people who use their middle fingers to point or scratch. It’s just a habit.

    I’d dispute Mary’s contention that the index finger is the strongest. In my case, my middle fingers are stronger. Besides using a computer keyboard, I play a musical instrument that requires the use of every finger and the left thumb so it’s not like I’m out of touch with the ablilities of each of my digits.

    Here we go with one more distraction… ::sigh::

  • I love how the reporter says, “Gosh I don’t know why it took so long to get to it” — it’s because it is so trivial and stupid that you miss it entirely. And now that you bring it up, it gives me even more reason to vote for him, because I’ve been giving Hillary the finger since she cried in NH.

    This next bit goes out to anyone (over the age of 50) who is scared of Barack’s “blackness” as expressed in Jay-Zness or whatever is in evidence.

    1. Remember when you were kids, back in the 1960s? When you listened to that devil music and refused to cut your hair? And ran around being hippies or burning your draft cards? And all the adults looked down on you for it? And how you felt about their condescension and moral ineptitude?

    Well….today’s “rock” is hip-hop. And we’re what you were. And now you’re what your parents were. Feel good about that now? Do you feel just a little bit out of touch now? Remember, time is on our side, you know. We’re going to be around a lot longer then you….unless of course your generation can manufacture more wars to wipe us out in–God knows Hillary wouldn’t vote against them, since our age group isn’t voting for her. (ooh, that was ugly. where’s my flag pin?)

    2. There was a time not too long ago when everyone was challenging Barack for not being black enough. Now the accusations are coming that he is some kind of pro-black nationalist sleeper agent for african al-shazzam uber alles or something.

    Grow up people. You sound about as stupid as all the people in 1960 saying “A Catholic can never win the White House, and if he does, the Pope will run the country.”

  • I believe that the Clintons,individually and collectively, have been flipping off the American public for years now. Case in point-the case of Peter Paul vs. Clinton re: Campaign finance fraud involving Hillary’s Senatorial campaign.What’s that you say? Never heard of it? I guess Mc Cain’s not the only one the MSM is filtering through a diaphanous lense. Here with is a sample. (There are 22 million hits on googe about this case ,but little to nothing reported in MSM.)———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————Yet the civil fraud trial of Bill Clinton for defrauduing Hillary’s largest donor in 2000 into giving her campaign more than $1.2 million, pending in Los Angeles courts since 2003, is now preparing for a November, 2008 trial. The discovery that is now proceeding after a February 21 hearing, and the pending trial, have NEVER been announced by the mainstream media.

    Hillary was able to extricate herself as a co-defendant in the case in January, 2008 after years of appeals to be protected by the First Amendment from tort claims arising out of federal campaign solicitations she made. Her abuse of the intent of California’s anti-SLAPP law after the California Supreme Court refused to dismiss her from the case in 2004 is emblematic of her contempt for the Rule of Law.

    Hillary will be called as a witness in both discovery and the trial according to the trial court Judge who so-advised Hillary’s attorney David Kendall when he dismissed Hillary as a co-defendant in 2007. A subpoena is being prepared this month and will be served personally on Hillary, along with Chelsea, Pa Gov. Ed Rendell, Al Gore and other well known political and media figures.

    Yet the media has refused to report about this landmark civil fraud case.

  • There is a kind of laziness to dismissing my remarks by comparing me to IFP. If you can’t address the substance of what I’m saying, you sound lame resorting to namecalling. IFP comments on things I don’t care about and have never mentioned, makes racist remarks, reflects a suspicious hostility toward feminism, and seems to be a projection of a variety of hostilities onto a character meant to represent me but with only superficial resemblance to what I post. It is sophisticated namecalling, but it is still namecalling.

    I will repeat. I have the right to express my opinions here, just as you do. When you ridicule others, it is a form of bullying. It is nothing like discussion. I rarely respond to the posts of others here because I do not have time to read the comments all day and keep up with what is being said. That leaves you the floor to make fun of me unanswered. The more ugly your posts (and IFP is frequently very ugly), the less well you represent your candidate Obama and the more you make yourselves look like people who cannot tolerate divergence of opinion. Before this campaign I thought that Democrats were different than the wingnuts on the conservative blogs because they actually thought about things and discussed issues. Now I know that people are the same at both ends of the political spectrum and that conservatives have no monopoly on knee-jerk hostility.

    You no doubt consider IFP clever, based on your references to him. That is a shame because it suggests you aren’t thinking about what IFP represents. I won’t be leaving here until Clinton pulls out of the race, if then. Until then, enjoy yourselves but don’t imagine anyone thinks you’re funny except other Obamabots.

  • LOL. When this story first surfaced, it just made me chuckle a little but I didn’t really take it too seriously because I figured that not even Hillary’s most fervent supporters would try and make something of this. They would have to have enough self awareness to realize that it would make them look stupid and crazy to try and conjure some sort of grave insult out of this clearly meaningless gesture. But… here we are.

    On one level I am certainly unhappy that our discourse is being dragged into this level of absurdity by the Clinton dead enders. On the other hand, I am not sure anything could crystallize the absolute ridiculousness of the debate we are having more than this bit of stupidity. It is quite depressing but at least it demonstrates in the clearest possible terms to any sane people left out there just how far we have been removed from reality by this kind of crap.

    I must admit though that I particularly enjoyed Mary’s attempt to blame her own silly misapprehensions and lack of reading comprehension on CB and Obama supporters. Her second post is a perfect masterpiece of the “blame everyone else for my mistakes” approach that we have all become so familiar with seeing this political season.

  • IFP comments on things I don’t care about and have never mentioned

    Not too many. Mostly she sticks with satirizing things you’ve already said, and the rest of her commentary hits close enough to your particular sickness that it’s highly recognizable.

    makes racist remarks

    …that directly mock the highly questionable racial comments you’ve made in plenty.

    reflects a suspicious hostility toward feminism

    …or is it really just a hostility toward your shameful twisting of feminist principles in the service of your own ego and need to control?

  • I must admit though that I particularly enjoyed Mary’s attempt to blame her own silly misapprehensions and lack of reading comprehension on CB and Obama supporters. Her second post is a perfect masterpiece of the “blame everyone else for my mistakes” approach that we have all become so familiar with seeing this political season.

    One gets the impression that if 100 people commented on the fact that it’s a beautiful day, Mary, who really wants it to be night, would mourn everyone else’s inability to recognize the inky blackness of the sky.

    If everyone thinks you’re an asshole, it’s a good idea to give at least cursory consideration to the idea that you might be one.

  • I’m typing this with both middle fingers. Am I flipping you all off? You decide.

    I think that this presents one of those golden opportunities for the Obama campaign to use this new, fundamental issue of the campaign for presidency,(sigh), to their advantage.

    Just say that Obama’s gesture may be an involuntary reflex of the Cheney Gene kickin in that he inherited from cousin Dick. That should be completely understandable and forgivable to Dems and Reps alike, shouldn’t it?
    Oh, and to those “Marys” out there who see this as a real issue, there are more than a few videos of G(od’s) W(ill) Bush giving the finger playfully before going live on camera interviews. What would the moral Christian Right say about that?

  • Obama is very deft at hand signals. Moments before the “newsworthy” two-fingered “finger”, he mimicked Hillary putting the knife in his side, even twisting it. A theatrical director would’ve been proud of the way he worked it. Had he wanted to flip Hillary off, I think he’d have a done a masterful job of that, too. In fact, he would’ve expressed what many of us have felt for a long time now, especially toward the Clintonistas. Consider this post a non-verbal equivalent.

  • Sorry, Mary, I thought you were kidding…now, I just feel bad, ya know, kinda like an elitest making fun of people who have never lived in 1930’s chicago when there was a 600% population of african-americans and taught body language and all that other stuff might feel…Im a terrible person, I dont deserve to live,…gotta go now and do my penance………………….not

  • In just the latest sad chapter in the decline and fall of the American media, press outlets are claiming that Barack Obama gave Hillary Clinton the finger during a recent campaign event. Despite the obvious video evidence that Obama was inadvertently scratching his cheek as he spoke, Fox News, the LA Times, the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Post (just to name a few) all ran with stories raising the specter of Fingergate. Sadly, back in 1998, one of the presidential candidates did in fact figuratively flip the Clintons the bird. And John McCain is still paying no price for it.

    For the details, see:
    “Media Hype Faux Fingergate, Ignore McCain Flipping Off Clintons.”

  • mary, stop whining like an elitist that people are too dumb to understand. You ARE entitled to your own opinion, it’s just that your opinion is so shockingly silly, so blissfully ignorant, so wantonly confrontational, we must express OUR collective opinion that you are incapable of rational thought, & come across as smarter when you write nothing. Consider it an interventon for your addiction to stupidity & trivialities.

    You’re welcome.

  • The first finger is stronger than the middle finger, so scratching with it is more likely. — Mary @2,

    The first finger may, or may not (vide Hannah, @21) be stronger than the middle one. But the middle finger is *definitely* longer than the pointing (first) one, and will reach its target faster, which is why it’s used for scratching. It’s also why it’s used for flipping off — no man will admit to having a short dick.

    Upon re-reading, I see that the point of this post is that the Clinton people are stupid for suggesting that Obama’s people shouldn’t be using this clip, since he flips off Clinton — Mary, @8

    Nope; the point of the post was that the MSM is inane in treating the whole thing like a serious issue. I’d suggest you re-read the post yet again, but doubt it would help; you must have been one of those children Left Behind, when God handed out brains sufficient to master reading comprehension.

  • #25 Mary: “Does Obama play any kind of musical instrument?”

    ::sound of my comment whooshing over Mary’s head::

    How would I know that, and what does that have to do with my comment (#21) that in my case, I know that my middle fingers are stronger than my index fingers, a fact of which I am cognizant due to playing a musical instrument. I didn’t say that playing an instrument made my middle fingers stronger…

    #24 Mary: Your statement “I do not have time to read the comments all day and keep up with what is being said” sounds a bit condescending… as though you’re implying that many here are too lazy to work or do anything productive (hmmm, a Repub talking point!). Which I doubt is true; it’s not in my case. But don’t worry, I’m not too bitter about it.

    And now I’m off to finish practicing my music (true statement).

  • How do you Obama followers expect to win the election in November?
    If you don’t wake up and realize that you can’t win it without the Clinton supporters, and do it really really soon, you will have lost the election for the man you are claiming to support!

  • nell, that’s far from true. there are plenty of voters who were ineligible to vote in a dem primary or caucus who will vote for obama but not for hillary. likewise, the only shillary supporters who won’t wind up supporting obama are the truly bitter who will sacrifice the good of the nation for their pathetic egos. you’ll all come around, unless you like hillary BECAUSE she’s so similar to mccain.

  • If you don’t wake up and realize that you can’t win it without the Clinton supporters, and do it really really soon, you will have lost the election for the man you are claiming to support!

    Shorter Nell: For Clinton supporters, the election is all about their own egos. Better be nice to them or they’ll throw the presidency to McCain, and THEN YOU’LL BE SORRY.

  • slappy and jimB0B

    I for one will sit it out. The more you insult us the more we’re likely to just not check a box next to any candidate for president.

    And you will not be sorry because like the current ass in the oval office, you refuse to be held accountable for your words and deeds.

  • Okay, Nell. Sit it out. There’s no reason for you to continue your narcissistic LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME posts; high-school sophomores do not have the franchise last time I checked. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.

  • I for one will sit it out. The more you insult us the more we’re likely to just not check a box next to any candidate for president.

    Wow.

    Hey, fuck the good of the country, it’s all about you, isn’t it?

  • At some point, those who do not repudiate her racist McCarthyism and dishonest divisive campaign will be exposed under the bright cleansing light of day.

    There are times in ones life that speaking up against that which is obviously wrong and unjust is not just an option, but a duty. Many in the Democratic Party have consistently avoided their duty in this regard, enabling her behavior– and it is shameful.

    Clintons and Rove do not have a monopoly on retribution. Obama would not think in terms of retribution. But many of his supporters are keeping score and will exact retribution to show that the Clinton McCarthyism, Racism and Rovian tactics will not go unnoticed or unpunished.

    Those who do not repudiate her campaign will find that they have limited political careers and will be on the outside looking in, wishing they had done the right thing.

  • Oh, lighten up, Zeffer. She’s going to lose and the more-Republican-than-thou DLC, as well as the pundits and “strategists” who have made a killing selling the politics of triangulation, will find their careers drawing to a close.

    That’s what’s needed. There’s no cause for melodramatic “retributions.” We’re better than that, and it’s just dancing on the graves these people have dug for themselves.

  • http://www.americablog.com/2008/04/at-clinton-hq-theyre-making-list.html

    John and Joe at Americablog were Clinton supporters… but no longer. Read the link above, and the NY Times article referenced in Joe’s blog entry. Apparently John Kerry is at the top of Clinton’s shit list. And the fact that Carville refuses to take back his “Judas” remark re Richardson is telling.

    When you demand loyalty, it rarely works. It’s been theorized that many of the Supers want to endorse Obama but are “afraid of the Clintons”. They are waiting until it’s obvious that Hillary can’t win the nomination so they can hopefully avoid their wrath when they go Obama’s way. Doesn’t sound too implausible based on the Times article.

    Great way to run a democracy. ::snark off:: It’s sad, really.

  • I find it highly amusing that when Clinton supporters reach the end of their ropes, they cry (shrilly), “You need me, so you’d better be nice.” To some extent this is true. However, they never seem to see the flip side of the coin: that Clinton will need Obama supporters. And she will need them as much, if not more than, Obama will need Clinton supporters. It seems to me that one of the candidates is filling 20,000 seat arenas and the other hangs out in HS auditoriums.

    …and now back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

  • If you can’t address the substance of what I’m saying…

    We can’t address the substance of what you are saying because there is no substance to what you are saying. This flip-off thing may be the dumbest tempest in a teapot of all time.

    Obama will need Clinton supporters, but many of them have gone so far off the deep end there is no telling if it is reversible. There’s no hope for the Larry Johnsons and Taylor Marshes. This is what happens when you run a Lee Atwater-style campaign. The idea is to destroy your opponent using character assassination. Hillary has been running an Atwater-style campaing since Wisconsin.

  • I had to double check because i thought for sure this was Faux News. Come on MSNBC, I mean really. Silly season is right.

  • Just wanted to let you all know that I made another contribution to Clinton’s campaign today. Whenever I get especially annoyed by the blatant propaganda at one of these sites, such as HuffPo’s current headline about how Clinton’s donors are all tapped out, I make myself feel better by donating to Clinton. I think it is the best way to combat this trash.

    There was a lot of talk about Barney Frank yesterday but no one mentioned that he has not endorsed Obama and has in fact stated that he thinks Obama is “not ready”. AmericaBlog has gone off the rails because Aravosis has always hated Clinton, but I don’t believe his views are typical of many in the GLBT community. I think that is why Rachel Maddow is so carefully neutral on her show — that, and she is a lot smarter than most of the blogosphere.

    Nell makes a good point above. The polls are showing that fewer Clinton supporters are willing to rally behind Obama than vice versa, by about 8-10 pts. That can be the difference in the fall election. You all keep suggesting it is because Clintonites are Republicans at heart (a ridiculous remark on the face of it) but I think it is because they feel as I do about Obama and about the way Clinton has been treated. The treatment of Clinton supporters in this and other blogs is a microcosm of what has been handed to Clinton herself during her campaign. It is ugly at any level. I’m not a naturally forgiving person, so it won’t be forgive and forget for me. Others may be, but you are not making it any easier for them to join up when you treat anyone here who supports Clinton like shit.

    I know, you are all having too much fun throwing your weight around to stop now. Later, you will all claim that it was Clinton who destroyed Obama’s chances, but I think you guys will have done your share to alienate potential Democrat voters. You all excuse yourselves by saying “who needs them?” but you had your fun laughing at the Nader voters too, as I recall, then blamed them for feeling shoved out of the party.

  • I agree with Javiar R — the dirt off your shoulder bit was terrible. That rap song is full of f-words and other vulgarity. Just classless Obama. And it shows such a mocking, demeaning attitude — arrogance again. The one thing I wonder, though, is how many people actually saw this. I saw a lot of coverage of the “finger,” but not much about the JZ reference. I wonder: does Obama allow his girls to listen to that vulgar stuff too?

  • I don’t think he flipped her off; he scratched his face several times. But his audience surely did, unless you think they typically scream with laughter and applaud every time he says her name. The whole tone of his speech made them believe that was likely, which I think is the real takeaway from all this. His entire speech was childish and immature, with the gestures, especially the wiping dirt off his feet. If this is a “new kind of politics,” I don’t want any part of it.

    Senator Obama needs to remember that he’s a United States Senator running for the Presidency, not a high school senior running for most popular kid in school.

  • Hey Tom @22 don’t forget that you’re talking to people who have been where you are AND been where your parents are. We’ll get a lot smarter as you get older.

    BTW, I kinda prefer “feeling groovy” to glorifying pimps, bitches and bling. It’s sad that this generation’s dominant music is so misogynistic, violent and apolitical.

  • Eleanora.
    All you have left is pounding the table… and you, and the other
    Clinton-Deadenders, can’t even get THAT right.

  • Mary:

    Just wanted to let you all know that I made another contribution to Clinton’s campaign today. Whenever I get especially annoyed by the blatant propaganda at one of these sites, such as HuffPo’s current headline about how Clinton’s donors are all tapped out, I make myself feel better by donating to Clinton. I think it is the best way to combat this trash.

    [Insert money being flushed down the toilet sound here.]

    Keep up the good work old gal!
    The Clintons certainly appreciate your hard-earned.

    [Insert Clinton guffaws here]

  • Your coverage of whether or not Obama flipped Clinton off is a waste of time. Why Obama exist in the public baffles me. Americans must have lost their souls. The guy is an immature fooll who can’t take any hard criticism. Yet we see young easily brain washable kids following him like cult. Utah comes to mind. Perhaps this Obama phenomenon can explain why America is almost last in education level among advanced countries and America does most damage to the world environment. I wish Al Gore ran for the presidency. He could have blown Obama to Illinois where he belongs among his black brothers like Rev. Wright.

  • I’m wondering if this site has a couple right wing nuts posing as Obama supporters.
    For a while there they seemed to dominate. Maybe it’s turning around.

    I listen to some right wing radio shows to keep an eye on the enemy. I suggest anybody who wants to justify the attacks on Clinton by the progressive blogs such as dailyKos and Huffpo do the same. It’s as if these wayward blogs (and those who comment there) are emulating the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Shawn Hannity and (the worst) Mike Savage.

    For the thinking folks: check this out
    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/19/232437/366

    BTW I am now convinced Obama would be a disaster as a president and set progressives back by almost as much as the current pResident has the GOP.

  • “at a campaign event while referring to Hillary Clinton.”

    So, this didn’t even happen at the debate? He supposedly flipped her off at a campaign event while she wasn’t even there? How could he be sure where “imaginary Hillary” was standing?

    This has to be the stupidest political “scandal” I have ever heard of. God, the Hillary supporters have sunk to a level of pathetic that I didn’t think was even possible to reach. He’s not going to self-destruct. Your candidate has lost. Move on.

  • BTW I am now convinced Obama would be a disaster as a president and set progressives back by almost as much as the current pResident has the GOP.

    You are truly delusional.

    Seriously? Any Clinton OR Obama supporter who says that they’ll vote for McCain if their preferred candidate doesn’t get the nomination needs to have their freaking HEAD EXAMINED.

  • I’m wondering if this site has a couple right wing nuts posing as Obama Clinton supporters.

    Fixed.

  • 1.
    On April 19th, 2008 at 10:55 pm, Mary said:

    Just wanted to let you all know that I made another contribution to Clinton’s campaign today. Whenever I get especially annoyed by the blatant propaganda at one of these sites, such as HuffPo’s current headline about how Clinton’s donors are all tapped out, I make myself feel better by donating to Clinton. I think it is the best way to combat this trash.

    Mary, I thought you were serious about this HRC thing. And here you are holding out. You’ve still got cash to give and you are acting like you are the real deal HRC supporter. This is it baby. This is crunch time for HRC. She needs everything that you’ve got right now. This back and forth on a comments thread is kids stuff. If you were serious about your support you would give HRC every penny you can scrounge up right this second. What are you trying to do to your candidate? Is this like some dripping water torture of tiny contributions? Either you’re all in or you’re not. You’re not impressing anyone here with this contribution by tantrum whenever you get depressed by the anti-HRC noise.

    We want you to give it all Mary. Sell your stuff. Forgo the internet connection until all of this is settled. You aren’t taking your commitment to HRC seriously. Give it all up for Hillary. Cleanse yourself and then take that one remaining bowl and hit the streets. Your credibility is truly on the line here.

    It’s time to show some ribs here girl. A zero bank balance would be impressive and maybe some overdue phone and electric bills. It’s obvious that you can roll with the stuff here all day long. Some decent suffering on your part for your heroine might generate some respect though you will always be crackers to us.

    Come on Mary. All in. If you’re serious it’s the least you could do. Talk is cheap. Walk the walk. Give her everything you’ve got. It would be the best way to combat this trash.

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