When candidates walk the ‘arrogance line’

Comedian Chris Rock used to have a bit in his stand-up routine about how running for president was the single most arrogant thing a person could do. I don’t remember Rock’s exact words, but as I recall, he’d say, “Presidential candidates look at all of these problems and think, ‘I’m the perfect person to fix them. Healthcare? Me! International affairs? Me! The budget? The environment? Education? Me! Me! Me!'”

That said, I think some candidates clearly come across as more arrogant than others. Perceptions on issues like these tend to be in the eye of the beholder, but I’ve never perceived Barack Obama as being especially arrogant. His standard stump speech tells audiences, “I’m reminded every day that I’m not a perfect man,” and, “I am an imperfect vessel for your hopes and dreams.” In his campaign kick-off speech in February 2007, Obama said, “I recognize there is a certain presumptuousness — a certain audacity — to this announcement.” These aren’t the kinds of things an arrogant candidate tends to say. In fact, it’s the opposite.

Nevertheless, the AP’s Ron Fournier, in an opinion piece today, challenges Obama on the issue.

[T]here’s a line smart politicians don’t cross — somewhere between “I’m qualified to be president” and “I’m born to be president.” Wherever it lies, Barack Obama better watch his step.

He’s bordering on arrogance.

The dictionary defines the word as an “offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.” Obama may not be offensive or overbearing, but he can be a bit too cocky for his own good.

The evidence seems a little thin. Fournier digs up some old quotes, which appear to have been spoken in jest. In fact, Fournier concedes that with one of the quotes — Obama told supporters in January that by the time he was done speaking “a light will shine down from somewhere” — Obama was “surely kidding.”

But Fournier nevertheless insists that both Obama and his wife “ooze a sense of entitlement.”

“Barack is one of the smartest people you will ever encounter who will deign to enter this messy thing called politics,” his wife said a few weeks ago, adding that Americans will get only one chance to elect him. […]

If arrogance is a display of self-importance and superiority, Obama earns the pejorative every time he calls his pre-invasion opposition to the war in Iraq an act of courage.

While he deserves credit for forecasting the complications of war in 2002, Obama’s opposition carried scant political risk because he was a little-known state lawmaker courting liberal voters in Illinois.

I still don’t see it. Michelle Obama praised her husband, but that’s what all candidate spouses do; it’s hardly proof of “a sense of entitlement.”

As for Obama’s 2002 opposition to the war, being right about the biggest issue of the day, and then telling voters about it, isn’t arrogance. As for the “risk,” I think Fournier is being unfair — anyone who dared to speak up against the war at the time was branded unserious and unreliable on national security. For an ambitious U.S. Senate candidate, Obama definitely showed courage by stepping up and saying this war was a mistake.

To be sure, it’s probably fair to say that Obama and his campaign have presented him as more than just a senator running for the nomination. He’s running to “make history.” His candidacy is about “changing the country.” Obama aims to lead a movement, not just a group of campaign supporters. It’s natural, then, to give the impression that Obama is someone who is both special and historic — which necessarily might present the impression of arrogance.

Ultimately, I suppose Fournier’s piece reads more like a warning than an accusation. He didn’t argue that Obama is arrogant so much as he suggests voters might think so if Obama isn’t careful. I suppose that’s reasonable advice, though I’m not entirely sure how a presidential candidate can sell himself or herself to the electorate without touting their abilities, record, and strengths.

I guess we’ll find out.

I’m not saying Fournier IS an idiot, but if he doesn’t watch himself and keeps writing crap like this…

Ah, hell. Fournier’s an idiot.

  • I guess that’s why I’m drawn to Obama’s style of politics. It’s not about him; It’s about me, and what I can do. And I am the one who can solve all of our problems, just ask me.

    Incidentally, my air of arrogance was developed as a young child when I learned that I was the sole entity who could, in fact, prevent forest fires.

  • Yup, warn the black guy that he better be respectful and humble. Wouldn’t want to offend voters and say that only the states you won matter.

  • There is a sense of irony in Ron’s piece; it might well have been written two days ago—warning Obama to “Beware the Ides of March.”

    Do I compare Obama to Julius Caesar? No—certainly not—but as the nomination slowly gathers its final momentum in his direction, it is an entirely wise thing to do in warning him to beware the moment when he does, indeed, “cross the Rubicon.” An air of entitlement now—a move in the direction of “I’m due this; it’s MINE!” when it has yet to be gained would bring everything crashing down.

    One Hillary in the Democratic Party is more than enough….

  • I know this wont be popular in these parts. . .

    I agree that Obama started out all about “we,” and “us” and “you.”

    But about 6 weeks ago I told my wife that it seemed to me he’d gotten a little full of his own press clippings. Yes, yes, I know he was ostensibly joking, but over the short period of just a few days he said (1) in a debate, responding to Clinton’s attacks about him being “just speeches,” that “and some of those speeches were pretty good if I say so myself,” and (2) to someone asking the Bill Clinton “boxers or briefs” question “I’m not going to answer questions like that, but let me just say whichever it is I look good in ’em.”

    It isn’t a big deal to me in part because I agree with Rock that running for President inherently involves an ego the size of a medium state, and I’m ok with that, but it really does seem to me that over the course of the campaign Obama has started to take his own hype to heart in a way that could turn some voters off.

  • This is absolutely true, all blacks ooze a sense of entitlement. They probably developed this when blacks repeatedly won the presidency, time after time, with no apparent qualifications except their arrogant insistence that they be elected just because of their blackness.

    Oh….wait…

  • Well Obama does have a lot to be arrogant about, but I’ve only noticed a couple of times he seemed arrogant and not significantly so. (You’re likable enough Hillary)

    I really like his style. How unlike Bush he is.

    Speaking of men of destiny though, McCain is the man of the hour. I mean who else has had such first-hand experience with financial meltdowns and bailouts than John “Keating 5” McCain?

  • There is a big difference between calling someone “uppity” and noting that they can seem “arrogant.” Can we stop the false accusations of racism whenever someone makes a point that you disagree with.

    The arrogance factor arises from the same general disquiet that a significant number of people had with the “messiah” aspect of the campaign. Now this aspect arose more from Obama’s supporters than Obama. But to the extent that it was a vibe out there and to the extent the Obama campaign seemed to be more about him, then about what he would do- I think morphs into the arrogance charge.

    The arrogance comes from that fact that Obama and his wife seemed to cultivate this campaign of persona (or at least his campaign did by telling “conversion stories”).

    Its a subjective opinion and I think is based more on a feeling than facts, but it is defintely an opinion that a not insignificant number of people hold.

  • If Obama has a sense of entitlement, he earned it and everything else he has himself, versus someone like Bush who was handed everything he has ever had on a platter (probably platinum, not silver) and has turned everything he ever touched into rat droppings.

    How rich.

  • The bigger arrogance, in my view, is the common references and (implicit) analogizing of his campaign’s hope/change to JFK, MLK, Jr. etc. He has invoked them so much on the stump that even though he’s just using them as touchstones, it certainly gives me the impression that voting for him is supposed to be akin to voting for these Democratic heroes.

  • 2.
    On March 17th, 2008 at 4:31 pm, doubtful said:
    Incidentally, my air of arrogance was developed as a young child when I learned that I was the sole entity who could, in fact, prevent forest fires.

    šŸ™‚ Yeah but could you dissolve clouds by staring at them? Oh, those childhood illusions. Now I believe that I’m the only person in the world for whom The Secret actually works!

  • Why is it that a demonstration of superior intelligence is considered arrogance?

    This is the sort of shit which contributes to the general dumbing down of society. Let’s face it– some people are more intelligent than others. Yet, by ‘standards’, we’re all supposed to be ‘Joe six-pack’…

    Hell, back when I was in High School, the school literally eliminated the Honor Society– because it was ‘elitest’. So, kids who excelled couldn’t get things like AP credit… Now, that may not sound like a lot, and, in the larger scheme of things, it didn’t seem to affect too much, but that’s just one indicator of a more general dumbing down of society, so that nobody gets offended…

    We should be celebrating the fact that we have an individual who is intelligent, has a clear grasp of the challenges facing him, and who has the intellect to help overcome those challenges.

    Instead, people talk about him being ‘arrogant’, merely because he has the audacity to actually demonstrate his intelligence.

    Disgusting.

  • I’m with doubtful on this one. For all the talk about Obama thinking it’s all about him, his speeches and pitches generally insist that it’s all about us.

    It’s like the Edwards argument that we need to be patriotic about something other than war for once, that we need to pitch in and get involved. It’s one of the main things that drew me to Edwards and then to Obama.

  • Either Fournier is absolutely right, or he has a massive death wish. Or maybe he’s both — but for sure it’s not neither.

  • Puh-lease. Find me one presidential candidate who doesn’t think they’re able to do the job, even when the job is really tough. What we have here is another “Obama says X and he’s doing Y” kinda story. It’s like “Obama says we have to sing kumbaya and there he is being mean to __”. Total BS.

    All you need to do to gauge his “arrogance” is watch a few of his speeches to see how he projects his optimistic self-deprocating hubris.

    I think the deeper issue is that a lot of people see Obama’s ability to use humor as a potent weapon, which he loves to use to disarm his opponents. When he gets the audience to laugh at Hillary (or McCain), he really makes an impact. And make no mistake, the beltway bobbleheads do not like the way he wants to rewrite the kabuki script we’re all supposed to accept. He goes into riffs where he’s describing some intractrable political problem, and the people who say “you can’t do that”, to which he replies “Watch me!”.

    IMO Fournier is obviously not happy that Obama gets to have a little fun while he carves up his opponents like butter.

  • “As for the ā€œrisk,ā€ I think Fournier is being unfair — anyone who dared to speak up against the war at the time was branded unserious and unreliable on national security. For an ambitious U.S. Senate candidate, Obama definitely showed courage by stepping up and saying this war was a mistake.”

    I was a senior in high school during the debate about Iraq, and it was risky to be against the war then. My hat goes off to anyone who criticized the war before the invasion.

  • Yes, the man is arrogant.. he admittedly knew there were tapes out there which showed his close friend and advisor ranting and raving against whites, and against America, yet his arrogant ass still decided to run for President!

  • Want to see some arrogance?

    Check this out:

    Clinton, responding to an open-government questionnaire in connection with the American Society of Newspaper Editors’ Sunshine Week initiative, vowed Sunday to disclose the names of the Clinton library and foundation donors if she’s elected president.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/30678.html

    Got that? Once I am elected I will let you see who’s been giving my family millions of dollars.

    Unfuckingbelievable.

  • My wife and I marched against the war in Manhattan as part of the Feb. 15, 2003, global protest.

    There were tons of people out on the streets then — estimates ran about 200,000-300,000, I think — and this was in a bitter cold spell, with temperature (with wind chill) down in single digits. The NYPD, though civil, set up a maze of barricades and fencing, to route us down one street and up another, diluting the effect completely and keeping us from marching past the UN. We felt like hamsters in a maze.

    The media blackout was disturbing, as the march received incredibly little attention, even on the local channels and papers here. What little attention we did get focused not on the “normal” people in the crowd — and there were plenty — but always on the ANSWER nuts or the old hippies with the giant paper mache puppets. And it was balanced out with coverage of the dozens of pro-war protesters out there, as if constituencies of 300K and 25 demanded equal time.

    That was back when opposition to the war was polling at about 20%. (I’ve never been in such a minority contingent before and yet been so completely sure I’d be proven right.)

    Clinton and others can ridicule and belittle the speeches Obama made against the war back then, but that was in fact a bold stance, and one that proves he was prescient on the issue.

  • The bigger arrogance, in my view, is the common references and (implicit) analogizing of his campaign’s hope/change to JFK, MLK, Jr. etc. He has invoked them so much on the stump that even though he’s just using them as touchstones, it certainly gives me the impression that voting for him is supposed to be akin to voting for these Democratic heroes.

    Please, this is standard operating procedure for Democratic politicians. Let’s not forget that Bill Clinton made a big deal of his handshake photo-op with JFK. Jimmy Carter consciously aped the Fireside Chats during his presidency. LBJ and JFK each went by their initials in their campaign literature because it clearly evoked memories of FDR.

    It’s not as bad as the Republican Reagan worship, but this is an old Democratic tradition.

  • If Obama played totally meek and humble he’d get slammed for being weak and ineffective. You know he would, they’re already trying to say that about him now.

    Let’s just stop all the fake outrage and the “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” horseradish, shall we? It’s just soooo fifteen minutes ago, and the country deserves better than that.

  • but, but Curmudgeon, its so much more fun (and much, much easier) for the press and the average folks to have an opinion on the level of Obama’s ego than whether a weekend cut in the Fed’s discount rate will or wont compensate for the pyschological impacts of Chase’s $2/per share buyout of Bear Stearns. . .

  • Obama says in his campaign literature in SC that he is “called by God” to run for the presidency. That is arrogant and also lays the blame on a deity.

    Obama seems to complain whenever he receives the same sort of scrutiny and criticisms other candidates do, as if people were out of line to direct such toward him. That is arrogant.

    The over the top confidence displayed during debates and speeches is par for the course, but when Obama supporters mock Clinton for saying that she is honored to be running against Obama, and similarly mock her as insincere when she makes humble statements, that increases the sense that the Obama campaign is full of itself.

    Obama needs to project confidence not hubris. I don’t believe this is about uppitiness or sticking to one’s place. Obama has not paid his dues yet he is trying to jump the line when it comes to running for president. He appears to believe that charisma plus potential is a reasonable substitute for hard work and experience. That will appear arrogant to a lot of people, regardless of his race. Obama may not realize that even talented people need to work their way up to the position of presidential candidate, and that is a source of his arrogance. Attributing complaints about this to race will just alienate people who come from union backgrounds where seniority is part of fairness.

  • oh ..you’d nevah been in such a minority before and just knew you’d eventually be proven right … eh ??

    now .. that’s a true picture of arrogance … by gawd … way to go .. you’ve set the gold standard in this topic …

    lol …TR

    (peace ..i’m just yankin’ that chain )

  • –Obama seems to complain whenever he receives the same sort of scrutiny and criticisms other candidates do, as if people were out of line to direct such toward him. That is arrogant. —

    Really? Where exactly have you heard him complain? At most, I’ve heard him say, well, I don’t like [insert attack here], but hey, it’s part of this process and I can answer it.

    — Obama needs to project confidence not hubris. I don’t believe this is about uppitiness or sticking to one’s place. Obama has not paid his dues yet he is trying to jump the line when it comes to running for president.–

    Whoa, whoa, whoa. I’ve never seen hubris, lord knows when he’d have the time recently what with all the kitchen appliances flying through the air. But then you get to your gripe, eh? Since when do we take turns or get in line to be president? There aren’t supposed to be dynasties in this country. If anyone has hubris about running for president, well, I think we know who that is. Remember that moment in NH? The one where Clinton informed us that it’s so hard, because she just knows she’s the one, the only ONE, who knows what’s best for this country. What exactly do you call that?

    He has not attributed complaints to race — Clinton has, Ferraro has. Personally, I think he could do it, but he doesn’t. I may do it, but he doesn’t. He acknowledges that race is a factor — but it’s a little hard not to acknowledge it when your opponent spends their time bringing it up.

    What dues, exactly, did Bill Clinton pay when he ran for president? Do you believe that he was overly arrogant and full of hubris and disrespectful of “working his way up?”

  • –should say… ā€œrespect for seniority is part of fairness.ā€–

    Does this mean you’ve switched to supporting McCain?

  • One man’s confidence I guess can be seen as another man’s arrogance.

    What bugs me about Fournier is the same thing that bugs be about Ferraro; they both dance around the concept that Obama is somehow the affirmative action candidate. Yes, all those memories of qualified whites being denied opportunities to under-qualified minorities. Let the victimhood begin. Barack is “oozing entitlement” and “arrogant” because he’s going to get something the white candidates want but he will get handed to him by virtue of his skin color, or so they say.

    All the talk of Obama being unqualified, an empty suit, nothing but rhetoric are the set-up to knocking down his success as just a black guy getting ahead out of “white guilt”or some program to undo the meritocratic system in the US. Oh the tyranny of being born white and having to work so much harder than the blacks who get everything handed to them. Cry me a river. Fournier and Ferraro seem to be people who look at Obama’s popularity against white candidates and mutter “this can’t be happening,” and then look for excuses for why a person of color is succeeding in anything other than sports.

  • I’d add to TR’s comment @24, that just before being inaugurated, Bill Clinton held an “unscheduled” but well photographed (nothing like a little planned spontaneity) visit to JFK’s grave…where he laid a single, white rose and knelt there all alone, communing with ole “missile gap” Kennedy.

  • Obama “oozes a sense of entitlement”? As opposed to Nixon-in-a-Pantsuit?

    My brain just exploded.

  • Rove already penned an op-ed calling Obama a “lazy” senator. Now Obama’s “arrogant” (i.e. “uppity”) and “oozes a sense of entitlement.” All that’s needed for the full-on black stereotype is to make him into some kind of threatening dark-skinned thug a la Willie Horton.

  • whao now .. ” jumpin’ the line” .. “not respectin’ his elders” .. not “workin’ his way up ” … .

    makes one wonder how truly uppity one man can be doesn’t it .. ??

    wow.. the man truly doesn’t know his place does he ??

    how shameful of him .. tut..tut..tut .. was that satire ??

    i didn’t see any of those party machine requirements when i looked at the constitutional qualifications required to hold the office …

  • I’m with doubtful on this one. For all the talk about Obama thinking it’s all about him, his speeches and pitches generally insist that it’s all about us.

    This is where non-Obama supporters tend to see otherwise. It’s all about a movement of “us” and “we” to elect Obama president. It’s a candidate-centered movement to elect a particular president, not a specifically progressive movement to further progressive causes.

    That’s perfectly OK, of course. But some of us think that merely using language like “us” and “we” doesn’t make the campaign message exactly the epitome of humble.

  • If arrogance is a display of self-importance and superiority, Obama earns the pejorative every time he calls his pre-invasion opposition to the war in Iraq an act of courage.

    Sorry, Ronnie, but those of us who were opposed to the war back in 2002 are superior to ignorant morons like you. You see, we’re superior because we have brains and we know how to use them. You, on the other hand, not only lack frontal lobes but opposable thumbs.

    Idiot.

  • TR said: (I’ve never been in such a minority contingent before and yet been so completely sure I’d be proven right.)

    I wasn’t in that particular crowd with you TR, but you were right.

    Actually, I can remember back in 1965, when 89% of Americans thought the war in Vietnam was right and I told my father on the night I came home from that war that it was a crock of shit and that if we were doing what he’d taught me all my ancestors had done, we’d be on the other side – and I knew I was right.

    Guess that’s why I’m such an arrogant….

  • I’m sure Fournier wrote that Clinton was arrogant for assuming she was the inevitable nominee right? If not he has some splainin to do.

  • Seniority???? What the hell are you talking about, Mary??? Do you mean John McCain should be president because he’s older? That’s a great idea, somebody get hold of Alan Greenspan and see if he wants to be president!! He must be at least 200. I realize he wasn’t actually a senator, but that evidently doesn’t matter, because Obama has been a senator longer than Hillary. Greenspan was a part of the administration for probably about as long as Obama has been alive.

    Did JFK “work his way up”? How about Lincoln? Are you freebasing?

  • Obama has not paid his dues yet he is trying to jump the line when it comes to running for president. He appears to believe that charisma plus potential is a reasonable substitute for hard work and experience. That will appear arrogant to a lot of people, regardless of his race. Obama may not realize that even talented people need to work their way up to the position of presidential candidate, and that is a source of his arrogance. Attributing complaints about this to race will just alienate people who come from union backgrounds where seniority is part of fairness.

    Thanks for explaining why the Teachers Unions are “the enemy” with their constant defense of the incompetent (which I am sure you support, since you would otherwise be unemployable).

    Mary, you are an even bigger ignoramus than I have been giving you credit for (and I’ve been giving you credit the way people gave Bear Stearns credit). You remind me why – out of six teachers I remember from public school – I remember five of them as being even bigger morons than the rest of the idiots.

    “Seniority” has nothing to do with taking office in America, unless you are talking about an Imperial Succession, in which case you are not talking about American democracy.

    Those who can, do – those who can’t ,”teach” (and those who can’t teach, teach teachers, which explains how you arrived on the scene)

  • It is beyond ridiculous that something like this ought to even be a topic of discussion. Some clown’s perception of someone else’s proximity to the line between arrogance and confidence ought really to be beneath the consideration of serious people. But here we are.

  • These aren’t the kinds of things an arrogant candidate tends to say. In fact, it’s the opposite.

    Yup, exactly the opposite of what an arrogant candidate would say…sorta like when Bush talked about the need for a more humble foreign policy back in the 2000 debates. No arrogance there, eh?

  • There’s a certain arrogance in believing you should get a pass where others do not.

    There’s a certain arrogance in telling audiences in South Carolina and Mississippi that Hillary Clinton (and Bill) are part of the same white history that has kept blacks powerless–from the Clintons he says black people are getting the same ole okie doke, blacks are being hoodwinked again but the white people–and expect, in fact demand, to never be called on playing a double game on race.

    There’s a certain arrogance in calling Hillary a liar repeatedly for the first 15 minutes of a debate and then act like it’s no fair when she mentions Rezko–not to mention this whole denial that he’s been sliming her repeatedly for months.

    There’s a certain arrogance in thinking you can say Rezko who is that and the same with MInister Wright, and get away with it.

    There’s a certain arrogance in his standard stump speech talking about they said the mountain was too steep etc. etc. and what he’s talking about his is own rise to power.

    While the media is giving him a pass for now, using him to kill the witch once and for all, the minute he’s nominated they will collectively do a 360 degree pivot and he will get creamed. While every Democrat dating back probably to Dukakis got the media-creaming treatment, much of what Obama will face is of his own making, and could have been avoided if he had not been so arrogant.

  • Amelia, have you met Mary? I think the two of you would get along swimmingly. Both of your imaginations seem to stretch far and wide.

  • I agree with the “air of Arrogance”. Vote for Obama, John Kennedy and Martin Luther King…WE are together. Obama and Michele do show a sense of entitlement.
    I don’t understand why taxpayers pay for Obama’s security. I’m not a McCain supporter but he does not burden the taxpayers with security. Obama should pay for his own security, he has a huge campapign war chest. From his Preacher’s rants, it would seem the white man needs more protection than Obama. Lots of hate against whites. Who made this decision to pay for Obama’s security? Congress???

  • Fournier:
    Obama’s cool self-confidence got him into trouble in New Hampshire when he said Clinton was “likable enough,” faint praise that grated on female votes who didn’t appreciate him condescending to the former first lady.

    This is, I believe, the crux of Fournier’s problem with Obama. Obama is not simply self-confident; he is “cool,” as well. He has a way of making his appealing manner look easy. His charm looks effortless. Therefore, he is to be suspected (with a bias toward his being lazy or false), and the arrogance meter set on “extra sensitive” when Fournier is in his proximity. Whatever, one might think about Senator Clinton, she never makes it look easy. Charm is not a word that comes to mind to describe her. Everything a battle, a demand, a line in the sand with that one. And, as a result, I can find her just barely “likable enough.” [Perhaps it was ungracious and a tough slam on the Senator from NY, and the public is not ready for a flash of wicked wit. But, at least he didn’t add “As far as I know.”]

    I would be most curious to know if Fournier found Dubya’s obvious game-cock tendencies to be “over the line” to arrogance during his 2000 run for the Oval Office (particularly memorable to me was Bush’s discourse about the death penalty in one of the debates)? Or did he find that cockiness born of entitlement and psychosis to be a charming invitation to sit down and have a beer?

  • naaw ,, ol’ john doesn’t believe in security .. unless it’s three or four blackhawks and a couple of hundred troops with their assorted transports and humvees to escort him around the market square in iraq ..

    i’m fairly certain that secret service protection for leading presidential candidates is mandated by law .. and i don’t know if the campaigns reimburse the SS or not .. but it’s really silly in this day and age ..and after sirhan sirhan to even think we shouldn’t protect the candidates …

    if I were the first black man to have a real lead in the nomination process ofr the office of prez .. thinking ’bout dr. mlk jr. ll i think i’d like the idea of the SS keeping an eye out for any whackos milling about with the throngs ‘come to see me ..’

    i think not providing it would be silly ..and you can bet honest john has a protection detail as well …

  • –From his Preacher’s rants, it would seem the white man needs more protection than Obama. Lots of hate against whites.–

    Whatever you may think of the rants…I didn’t hear that preacher preaching violence. In fact, I do believe that he was preaching that, well, God damns those who perpetrate violence. Not saying I agree with his methods, but he was MAD about violence and apathy and injustice, not for them.

    (note to self … must not take these people seriously. Do laundry instead.)

  • Amelia, have you met Mary? I think the two of you would get along swimmingly. Both of your imaginations seem to stretch far and wide.

    Seriously. You normally only see that kind of delusion and alternate reality from a street corner wino.

    Ignore the trolls, people. They’ve proven impervious to facts and data, and all they care about is their own paranoid view of the world and their own messianic crusade for their candidate. They’re not worth the effort, and barely worth the pity.

  • Hello Joanie @ 49, I’m no psychic but I’m thinkin’ you’re really expressing your own regret you can’t get close enough to fire.

    From wikipedia:

    Prior to the 2008 Presidential election, the Secret Service generally protected major candidates over the 120 days preceding an election. As a former First Lady, presidential candidate Hillary Clinton already has Secret Service protection. On May 3, 2007, the Secret Service announced that Senator Barack Obama would also have protection following a request from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.[3]”

    And from the Secret Service Website

    The Secret Service protects the president and vice president, their families, heads of state, and other designated individuals…

    And since you’ve apparently just slithered out of a hole, for the umpteenth time Barack has a white Mommy! Just like you. Shit you could even be related!!

    OMG!! OMG!!

  • Oh dear. You know, they’re not really addressing the real problem; Democrats are not allowed to have high self-esteem. You know, because it might lead to them actually going and doing things, instead of wondering what the Republicans are going to say about it.

  • Joanie-
    George Wallace. Robert F. Kennedy, Sr. You know, those sorts of things. Better the taxpayers pay for protection than pay for a state funeral.

  • Fournier digs up some old quotes, which appear to have been spoken in jest.

    Just because they were said in jest, that may not stop the press from pretending they were serious to smear Obama. It worked against Gore in 1999-2000. Remember the union lullaby line? Gore told a joke and the press turned it into a “fib”.

    Contrariwise, they’ll take straight-up — but problematic — quotes from Saint McCain and bury them on the grounds they “weren’t serious”.

  • Jen, did you mean “If in fact, I do [or did] believe that he was preaching that”?

    If anyone seems to have a sense of entitlement it’s the Clintons. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll vote for Clinton if she’s the nominee, because any Democrat is better than any Republican. That was true even when there were lots of candidates. I wish I could locate it now, but a reporter asked HRC what someone else asked Cheney in 2004–what if you don’t win? HRC answered, in so many words, that that’s a moot point because of course I’ll win.

    >Why is it that a demonstration of superior intelligence is considered arrogance?

    >This is the sort of shit which contributes to the general dumbing down of society. Let’s face it– some people are more intelligent than others. Yet, by ’standards’, we’re all supposed to be ā€˜Joe six-pack’…

    Amen, Castor Troy. And boy, did we see that in 2000. If it weren’t for anti-intellectualism, I believe, Gore would have won by a generous, theft-proof margin, not by the squeaker he actually won by.

  • >Jen, did you mean ā€œIf in fact, I do [or did] believe that he was preaching thatā€?

  • Awwwww, shoot, the rest of my comment got eaten!

    The rest asked if it was a trick question, since my whole sentence said: In fact, I do believe that he was preaching that, well, God damns those who perpetrate violence.

    Or in other words, that despite his “fiery rhetoric,” he was preaching a non-violent message and an anti-injustice message. He certainly wasn’t, as someone implied above threatening white folk, instead he was preaching that killing is bad. No matter who/what country does it.

  • Mary (#27) said: “Obama has not paid his dues yet he is trying to jump the line when it comes to running for president.”

    Paid his dues? Jump the line? I was not aware that the Constitution requireda decades of political office in order to run for President. Do you know how much time in elected office Abraham Loincoln had prior to his election as President? One term in Congress. That’s it.

    Talk about arrogant. Clinton’s presuption that it is simply her time. And I have heard this same argument from a lot of Clinton supporters.

    Last time I checked the Constitution’s list of requirements is pretty short: natural born citizen, over the age of 35, 14 years of residency. That’s it. No special political experience. No line. Period.

  • I’m not a McCain supporter but he does not burden the taxpayers with security.

    Do you think he just flew to Baghdad this weekend on a Continental flight? That he was strolling around with just his wife at his side?

  • Obama is a great orator when he is at a rally speaking. He mumbles and bumbles when he is asked questions one on one.
    Mixed Mudd…you know nothing about me!!!
    Stephen Doughty…George Wallace never had SS security.
    Both of you need to learn more about history.

  • anyone who dared to speak up against the war at the time was branded unserious and unreliable on national security

    It’s easy now, from the vantage of 2008, to act like it was just ordinary to publicy denounce the war. But in 2002, the conventional wisdom was that this would be a short, popular war and that anyone — especially a Democrat — who denounced it would be hanging a millstone around their own neck, a gift of self-destructive b-roll to be played over and over by their opponents as their patriotism was denied.

    A large fraction of the political classes thought that a statement like Obama’s, far from being a steppingstone, would be a politically suicidal act. It took vision and conviction and, yes, courage to take a stand so thoroughly opposed to what everyone “knew” would be the shape of American politics for years to come.

  • Mixed Mudd…you know nothing about me!!!

    Well maybe not but your vile racism is so horrifying to me I really wouldn’t want to know anything else.

  • Mudd Mixer: The days of using “racist” is done. People are not accepting that anymore. It is not even an argument. Everyone calls people racist when they don’t want to discuss a topic or know they are wrong. It is “old hat”. You are bery obvious in your lack of knowledge or facts to argue.

  • I stumbled across this page while searching for other information about ALL the presidential candidates. For the first time in my adult life, I have found a truly mature forum.

  • Why is it that no one talks about Peter Paul (Hsu) and Sen Clinton. Or, Sen. McCain and his constant changing of mind to please the status quo (like last election he did not like Jerry Farwell – who said Americans ā€œdeservedā€ the 9/11 attacks- but this election it’s I Love Jerry?

  • Welcome to TCBR, Edd. If you visit regularly, you’ll find that Steve Benen (Carpetbagger) has a pleasing, direct writing style; a pretty damned even hand; and an interesting take on our politics.

    Yes, it is a mature forum. Tempers flare here too, but a lot of the regular posters are very knowledgeable and articulate. The one liner attack comments are fairly rare, and unlike a lot of other places, you can actually learn something from the comment section…as opposed to reinforcing the belief that your fellow internet man is abjectly shallow, ignorant, closed minded, and just plain mean.

  • The second most arrogant profession is an Op-Ed writer. Under entitlement- see “Clinton/Bush”

  • — Obama is a great orator when he is at a rally speaking. He mumbles and bumbles when he is asked questions one on one.–

    Again, I guess everyone sees things through their own lens. Yes, Obama pauses and thinks and is a careful question answerer. But, I see that as his actually answering the question asked, as accurately as possible. When I hear Clinton (or pretty much most other politicians, really), I hear someone who has memorized a long set of pat answers. It’s impressive that one can practice and memorize so many, but it’s also annoying in the context of a single question. That’s because the question itself is rarely answered, instead we get:

    “That’s a good question and I think it relates to [insert topic you want to answer about here] in many ways. [Continue pat answer about now changed topic and if you’re really good remember at the end of that pat answer to refer back to the original, but still basically unanswered question.]

    We’re so used to seeing it that we barely notice it anymore, except when watching someone who actually thinks and answers rather than just regurgitating a talking point. And yes, that IS slower.

  • everyone — his or her own lens (my grammar cop mama would be mad at my their up above)

  • Jen — Bill Clinton was governor of Arkansas for two six-year terms before running for President, aside from a career preparing himself by working as an aide to Sen Fulbright and supporting other people’s campaigns before running himself. He earned a degree in foreign policy at Georgetown, not just a law degree. In contrast, Obama was a local community organizer for a very short time before running for local office.

    JFK was young when he ran for president and exactly the same criticisms were raised about him, especially when delegates pledged to Adlai Stevenson switched their votes on the first ballot to support him (something Clinton has been criticized for suggesting is possible). There was bitterness among Democrats over JFK’s charisma and his inexperience, and the way he pushed aside others. Further, many historians agree that JFK was on the way to becoming a fairly mediocre president when he was assassinated. He was not living up to his hype (partially because of his inability to move an intransigent congress) and most biographers now believe he would not have prevented the escalation of the Vietnam war.

    I resent Obama’s co-opting of JFK and RFK for his own purposes. Despite the reality of their lives, these are icons to Dems and they do not belong to any guy with charisma who comes along and decides to claim their legacy, although Ted Kennedy legitimized that particular “audacity” after-the-fact by endorsing Obama. Those of us who remember the actual JFK and RFK are aware of the potential for words to become empty promises. I have more respect for Ted Kennedy who has done the hard work of the Senate and accomplished a lot of good over a lifetime. I do not need to look at McCain to see the alternatives to Obama, brushed aside by Obama’s appeal to “new” voters and his solid black support. (No, Ted wasn’t running, but plenty of good Dems were, including Kucinich and Edwards.)

    I would feel a lot better about Obama’s intelligence if he hadn’t borrowed even the title of his own biography from someone else (in this case Wright). It takes arrogance to run on other people’s accomplishments but he has no choice because he has so few of his own. When I refer to seniority above, it is because the Dems do traditionally go for the person who has earned the nomination, not the person who claims it. Clinton has earned it and she is respected by those who were around while she was doing it. The flood of outsiders into the party (young people who have never voted, Republican cross-overs, Independents, people like Oprah who never bothered to support anyone if they were not black) without the memory or knowledge to understand who deserves the nomination is discouraging to those of us who have seen how these things tend to turn out.

    TR — stop calling me a troll. I am a lifelong Dem with every right to post here. You make yourself and your side (Obama) look bad when you try to suppress discussion by Clinton supporters.

  • Shorter Mary:

    The presidency is like a gold watch to be awarded to the person who has been with the company the longest, regardless of their competency.

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