When in doubt, go with a red scare

For far-right Republicans, when nothing else is working in the midst of a political campaign, they always seem to go back to the same thing: the good ol’ red scare.

Take Tom DeLay, for example. The former House Majority Leader took time away from his criminal defense — DeLay is currently facing felony counts of money laundering and conspiracy in Texas — to appear on right-wing talk-show host Mike Gallagher’s radio show yesterday. When the subject turned to the presidential campaign, the former exterminator went after Barack Obama: “I have said publicly, and I will again, that unless he proves me wrong, he is a Marxist.” Gallagher agreed, saying, “[T]hat’s what he is.”

GALLAGHER: Yeah, that’s, we hear that every day. Congressman, every day someone will say to me, and I’ve said it, it’s as if this were a guy who’s desperately trying to cover up what seems to be the kind of old school Marxist, radical liberal failed ideology.

DELAY: Absolutely.

GALLAGHER: That’s what he is.

DELAY: No doubt about it.

There are a couple of angles to consider here. First, this is the same DeLay who, just a few months ago, lambasted John McCain for “betraying” the conservative movement. He said he’s prepared to “sit this [election] out” if McCain won the Republican nomination, and told Fox News, “There’s nothing redeeming about John McCain.” I guess he’s come around.

And second, the near-constant red-baiting from high-profile Republicans has clearly pushed the GOP beyond the realm of contemporary political norms. These guys are desperate, and panic appears to have set in, but that’s hardly an excuse for a red scare.

Matt at ThinkProgress noted that the right has been engaged in quite a bit of this talk lately about the Democratic nominee.

In April, after Obama made his now-infamous “bitter” remarks, Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol claimed in his New York Times column that it was a reiteration of “Marx’s famous statement about religion.” Karl Rove agreed, calling the comments “almost Marxian.”

Perhaps worse, Obama’s Senate colleague, Joe Lieberman (I-CT), told Fox News Radio that it was “a good question” to ask if Obama is “a Marxist,” though he said he would “hesitate” to call him one himself.

Quite right. I’d add that Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R), whom no one has ever accused of being a mental giant, picked up on this recently, blasting Obama for having a “socialist agenda.”

And it’s not just targeted at Obama specifically. Fox News invited an analyst on recently to argue, “What worries me about the Democrats is that if you listen to them, their message is so explicitly socialist. I mean, at every opportunity they seem to have this contempt for capitalism.”

Similarly, CNN’s Glenn Beck went on a tirade in January, arguing that Hillary Clinton’s policy agenda “sounds like the Soviet Union” — he labeled her “Comrade Clinton” — and said of John Edwards, “Now, put a red star on his furry head. He’s a communist.”

It’s become something of a Republican fall-back position. When the 110th Congress was taking office last year, RedState created a graphic that read, “Democrat-Socialists Take Back Congress.” There was a hammer and sickle in the middle, and the background image is of the evacuation of the U.S. embassy of Saigon.

In 2005, when some raised questions about the propriety of lawmakers attending retreats sponsored by corporate lobbyists, then-Rep. James Gibbons (R-Nev.) said, “Anybody who is against that obviously must be a communist.”

In 2004, then-Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) called John Kerry “a French-speaking socialist,” Sen. Gordon Smith (R-Ore.) said Kerry “advocates all kinds of additional socialism.” Around the same time, Bill O’Reilly called Paul Krugman “a quasi-socialist,” and compared David Brock’s Media Matters to Fidel Castro’s communist regime.

I can appreciate the fact that Republicans probably get a little tired of calling someone a “liberal,” but that’s no reason to start manufacturing a red scare. I mean, really. There should be some political norms that conservatives still care about.

The right gets pretty worked up when the left starts throwing around the word “fascist.” Oddly enough, though, the ease with which they talk about communism appears effortless.

Ah the words of a neo- fascist criminal. Maybe Tom should get a brown shirt.
Do they even realize the amount of social programs that this country engages in? That we pay out over 30% of our income to pay for this? Retards, all of them.

  • I mean, really. There should be some political norms that conservatives still care about.

    What planet are you visiting from?

  • There should be some political norms that conservatives still care about.

    Thanks, Steve. I needed a laugh this morning.

    You’re doing awesome work, by the way.

  • Marxist?

    Wait a minute, I seem to remember hearing that Obama was a Reaganite or maybe an Elitist.

    Now He is a Marxist, too? I am having a hard time keeping up here.

  • What they really mean:

    Pappy’s Staff: The reason he’s pullin’ our pants down.
    Pappy’s Staff: Gonna paddle a little behind.
    Pappy’s Staff: Ain’t gonna paddle it – gonna kick it, real hard.
    Pappy’s Staff: No, I believe he’s gonna paddle it.
    Pappy’s Staff: I don’t believe that’s a proper characterization.
    Pappy’s Staff: Well, that’s how I’d characterize it.
    Pappy’s Staff: I believe it’s more of a kickin’ sitcheyation.

  • Does fascism scare people more than communism does these days? I’m just curious. Of course, the thing we fought against in both Germany and the Soviet Union was not a political philosophy but the practice of tyranny – the same thing we were supposed to be killing Saddam Huseein for. For some reason, it seems like “fascism” has come to mean “tyranny” more than “communism” has. But maybe my perception only reflects what circles I run in.

    Part of their problem at this point is that we have plenty of socialist governments that are also democracies, and they are functional and full of satisfied tax-paying customers. One of them is even in North America! You can’t say the same for the success of fascism…. The bugaboo of a French-speaking elitist only goes so far, especially with younger voters coming in. It’s just not going to work with them, and it makes the Republicans sound like talking fossils.

  • JayDenver said:
    What they really mean:

    Pappy’s Staff: The reason he’s pullin’ our pants down.
    Pappy’s Staff: Gonna paddle a little behind.
    Pappy’s Staff: Ain’t gonna paddle it – gonna kick it, real hard.
    Pappy’s Staff: No, I believe he’s gonna paddle it.
    Pappy’s Staff: I don’t believe that’s a proper characterization.
    Pappy’s Staff: Well, that’s how I’d characterize it.
    Pappy’s Staff: I believe it’s more of a kickin’ sitcheyation.

    But McCain’s bona fide!

    Now they won’t let me back in the Woolworth’s.

  • One of the true ironies is that while they liken Dems to communists, they confuse the ideals of Marx/Engles which they hate with the totalitarian state filled with corruption, propaganda and fervent nationalism that they not only embrace readily embrace, but emulate feverishly. A serious person might ask which aspect did more to bring down the USSR.

  • until Tom Delay proves me wrong, I’ll continue to believe he f***s the carcasses of dead hobos while listening to Liza Minelli concert bootlegs, a shocking secret he keeps artfully hidden.

    And the less evidence there is to prove this rumor is true, the more it proves how good he is at hiding those befouled hobo corpses he’s used for his filthy love. Not to mention the bootlegs.

    Now…
    PROVE ME WRONG, TOM! YOU DEAD HOBO F***ER, YOU!

  • #7 – Fascism in it’s sense that the party dictates patriotism and not it’s citizens.

    It’s not old school Mussolini Fascism, but like anything borrows the subtext.

  • Fox News analyst: “What worries me about the Democrats is that if you listen to them, their message is so explicitly socialist. I mean, at every opportunity they seem to have this contempt for capitalism.”

    Pay attention here:

    Bill Clinton was the master at seasoning his speeches with a few pro-business items.
    Barack is a master at making America feel good about itself (a la Reagan).

    What’s lacking now in Obama’s speeches are a few quaint references to the importance of American business and the goodness of capitalism. The master chef needs to add some of this spice to his soup. He must not allow himself to be cudgeled as the anti-business candidate…

    Hat tip to the Fox News analyst for sounding the tocsin.

  • Steve, the perfect tidbit in this post was tying Joe Lie to the ReThuglican terrorist DeLay. If that one thought can be pushed hard enough, we might finally see Reid kick him out of the Dem Caucus.

    As for the Right constantly playing the Red Scare card, they’re just a bunch of sore losers. After all—look what happened the last time the fascists went up against their biggest arch-nemesis….

  • You know, for someone who’s facing criminal indictments and a looming trial, you’d think Tom DeLay would be a little more invested in the whole “innocent until proven guilty” thing.

  • Have you seen the RNC’s meetbarackobama.com website?

    All they have is (1) Democrats attacking Obama in the primary, (2) Rezko, and (3) days since last visit to Iraq.

    That’s ALL they’ve got.

    So the questions is – are they lulling us into a false sense of optimism?

  • I don’t watch Sean Hannity of TV, but sometimes I listen to him on the radio just to hear the latest lies he is spouting. He continues to bring up Rev. Wright and William Ayers which, in my view, is old stuff. However, he now has a favorite word which he uses to describe Obama and that word is “radical.” He must have used that word a half a dozen times last night. I guess when you are a losing Republican, the only thing you can do is call your opponent names. That is all they have left.

  • Bill O’Reilly: ” You’re a quasi-socialist”
    Krugman: “You’re a quasi-murderer”

    That was a classic confrontation wasn’t it?

  • It’s all in the words. Communist! Marxist! Socialist!

    From the uber wealthy trying to act like regular folk. And the dumbass American populace sees Rush O’Hannity as in their corner. Ugh!

    And, I like to think I have a little going on in the brains department and even I can’t specifically state the difference between communism and socialism.

  • It’s pretty pathetic — not to mention hysterical — to hear a bunch of neo-fascists accuse liberal capitalists of being “Marxists,” “socialists” and/or “communists.” Funnier still since not one of them knows even the basic tenants behind any of these philosophies.

  • Are we in a time-warp? I grew up listening to the same red-baiting rhetoric from unhinged wingers forty years ago. Only back then we called them Birchers and we had the Cold War, which was the only reason they got any traction with those arguments. That sort of talk only seems capable of motivating the Fox News Corp. demographic; old, white, Republican, and scared.

  • unless he proves me wrong

    sounds like Trial by Ordeal used to put suspected witches through. You are acquitted if you survive – death was proof of guilt.

  • Are we in a time-warp? I grew up listening to the same red-baiting rhetoric from unhinged wingers forty years ago.

    Republicans: the party of ideas.

    They’re freaking phoning it in now.

  • ET said:
    >unless he proves me wrong

    sounds like Trial by Ordeal used to put suspected witches through. You are acquitted if you survive – death was proof of guilt.

    Other way ’round.

    They’d toss a suspected witch in a pond, and if she floated then it proved she was innocent because the waters had rejected her for being s a “bride of he devil”. If she sank, she was innocent.

    Sometimes they hauled her out of the water before she drowned. Usually, all the innocent woman got was the “privilege” of a Christian burial.

    If you have a strong stomach, it’s worth reading about the witch hunts in the 17th century.

  • Sorry.

    They’d toss a suspected witch in a pond, and if she floated then it proved she was guilty because the waters had rejected her for being s a “bride of he devil”. If she sank, she was innocent.

  • I thought Obama was an Islamic extremist?

    I think the tide has turned on the right wing. Before all of these conservative radio hosts and commentators and the the tom Delays would hold forth and the earth would quake. Now, aside from Fox News, they’re treated like oddballs.

  • GALLAGHER: Yeah, that’s, we hear that every day. Congressman, every day someone will say to me, and I’ve said it,

    Yes, that because a 100 of the dumbest Americans call in your show every day.

    The Republicans are good anti-Marxists. They’re so busy shipping the means of production overseas that workers can’t possibly seize it.

    Hey Delay remember when you said you WERE government? Now you’re going to be Prisoner 898756J. You can yell, I’m not a free man. I’m a number.

  • Repulicans:

    WRONG on WMDs.
    WRONG on aluminum tubes.
    WRONG on ‘mobile weapons labs”.
    WRONG on ‘yellow cake from Africa’.
    WRONG on being ‘greeted as liberators’.

    LIARS.

    Unable to catch the anthrax killer.
    Unable to catch bin Laden.

    INCOMPETENTS.

    They are peering in our windows,
    Listening to our phones,
    Tapping our internet connections,
    ALL illegally.

    CRIMINALS.

    And they GOT NOTHING but name calling and scare tactics. LOOK!! Over there. A Democrat!! He’s a communist!!

    These people are PATHETIC.

  • It’s more of that fun game that Obama haters seem to like to play — the he can be two entirely different things at once:

    too white too black
    too Muslim too Christian
    too Reagan-y too Red
    too smart/elite too empty a suit

    It’s quite a trick!

    But honestly, does anyone under about my age (43) have a lot of fear of socialism? I don’t see it. We live in the most consumerist society around — I don’t see any young person really fearing that capitalism isn’t pretty dang healthy and if anything, in need of more regulation.

    My grandmother (who lived in Panama while her husband the engineer worked on the Panama Canal to give you a time frame) was sure there was a communist behind every bush, and loved Reagan with all her heart. But even her now 85 yo daughter? Really doesn’t live with that fear.

  • even I can’t specifically state the difference between communism and socialism

    Not a definitive answer, but I think of communism as an economic system (like capitalism). Socialism is more of a politico-economic philosophy, flowing from the basic idea that since we live in a system, certain things have to be considered as common property and protected by law. In a purely communist system, there is not private property at all.

  • I think with communism you start with a powerful state which is supposed to wither away and leave pure socialism in its wake.

  • Look at China, look at Russia.

    Even the commies are capitalists these days.

  • It’s sort of interesting to me if any of these characters, Delay et al., believe the stuff they spout. I think they are trying to scare people obviously, influence elections, etc. etc. They are also playing to a demographic of unhinged rednecks on talk radio or whatever and so they are being sensationalist and just trying to create a job for themselves.

    But I also think it’s not all playing for the cameras/microphone. I think they believe alot of it too. And if you repeat it enough, you and your listeners start to believe it. To some extent they think Obama’s call for broader access to health insurance or whatever reminds them of the gulag, Pol Pot, etc. or they think it is a slippery slope. To me, this shows how far right they truly are, that worldwide very mainstream positions are roughly equatable to Stalinism.

    ps. Slappy @ 10, you made my day. Let’s get shirts made.

  • A Marxist? Really? And here I thought they were just going to run with, ‘He’s black. Boo!’

  • Unfortunately, they do this because, sadly, there are people out there who buy into this nonsense.

    I live in the Atlanta area (only five miles from the infamous restaurant where the owner sold the Curious George/Obama t-shirts), and was sitting in the stands at my nephew’s middle-school baseball game the other day. A couple of guys behind me were talking about the election and one said: “I don’t know what I’m going to do. Hillary’s a liar, Obama’s a Marxist, and I don’t know what to make of McCain.” Nice.

  • Apparently, I’m not alone in my way of thinking. From hunter at dailykos (and I gotta admit, it’s funnier than mine*):

    Hunter, Blogger: Unless he proves me wrong, Tom Delay lures children into his van with candy, gasses them to death with bug spray, and uses their powdered bones as an aphrodisiac when making love to all the animals at the San Antonio Sea World.

    (*It’s funnier because it’s true…unless Tom can prove it’s not true…which only proves, again, he’s really good at hiding how terrible a perv he really is.)

  • Ohioan said:
    Have you seen the RNC’s meetbarackobama.com website?
    All they have is (1) Democrats attacking Obama in the primary, (2) Rezko, and (3) days since last visit to Iraq.

    That’s ALL they’ve got.

    No golf gear?

  • Personally, I’d like to see Obama go a little more socialist — but not calling it that, of course.

    No long ago in this country, if a man who worked hard and honestly at his job, his middle-class family would thrive. Today, under the economic policies of George Bush and the Republicans, the policies John McCain wants to continue for another four years, both parents in a middle class family can work hard and honestly at their full time jobs and the family is still just one medical emergency or one layoff away from disaster.

    John McCain doesn’t seem to think there’s anything wrong with that scenario. He sees no reason to change the policies that have made the rich richer while working family’s incomes have stagnated or shrunk.

    I say there is something fundamentally wrong with an economy where a family with two incomes has to worry whether they can afford to send their children to college, or worry whether they can make their next mortgage payment, or worry that they’ll lose everything if one parent gets sick.

    I challenge John McCain to say that in this country, which was founded on hard work, that it’s okay with him that someone can work hard, work smart, work honestly, and still not succeed.

    And I challenge John McCain to explain how cutting the taxes of millionaires will make that situation any better.

    That should play well in Appalachia.

  • mellowjohn said:
    ET…
    maybe we could build a bridge out of him.

    Mellowjohn, who are you who is so wise in the ways of science, Sir Knight?

  • LOL Slappy. Sounds like a new joke genre.

    Unless he proves me wrong, Tom Delay wears a corset, smokes only cigars discarded by Bill Clinton and puts dead bugs on his anus.

  • On the other hand, the Marxists sound more like DeLay’s crowd, so I dunno what he’s on about:

    If any form of pleasure is exhibited,
    Report to me and it will be prohibited.
    I’ll put my foot down, so shall it be,
    This is the land of the free.

    The last man nearly ruined this place,
    He didn’t know what to do with it
    If you think this country’s bad off now,
    Just wait ’til I get through with it

  • The right is extremely contemptuous of communism…until they are talking about our good comrades the Chinese who own a $trillion plus of our national debt. Capitalism on credit.

  • “Are we in a time-warp? I grew up listening to the same red-baiting rhetoric from unhinged wingers forty years ago.”

    This is what puts the “conserve” in “conservative.” What it is that conservatives want to conserve is their ability to keep people distracted so they (the aforementioned conservatives) can do whatever it is they want to do. Specifically, stay rich and get richer. This dynamic goes back so very much farther than 40 years. It’s what wealth has always done. When you hear them shout “communists! marxists!” that’s your cue to pull back the curtain and see what it is they’re actually hiding.

  • Actually, a lot of this is an attempt to create a linkage with Marxist dictators in Africa, and the failed, chaotic societies there that people see on the news. “See? Obama’s just like Idi Amin or Mugabe. White people prepare to have your families killed by hoardes of poor people!”

  • Radio Birdman said:
    Actually, a lot of this is an attempt to create a linkage with Marxist dictators in Africa, and the failed, chaotic societies there that people see on the news. “See? Obama’s just like Idi Amin or Mugabe. White people prepare to have your families killed by hoardes of poor people!”

    I don’t think most Americans, including most right-wing blowhards, think of Idi Amin or Mugabe as communists. They’re just dictators.

    What they’re talking about is health coverage. They know that any health coverage plan that will actually work, will resemble health coverage in all the rest of the western world. And those plans, if you put a label on them, are socialist.

    But then, so are the 40 hour work week, the weekend, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc., etc.

  • Just trying to find a slur that sticks. They don’t even know what the terms mean but use the terms as suggestive insults, like “he has a Hezbollah smile” or an “al qaeda smirk”. They certainly aren’t beneath such comments. Mostly they are just stupid and this is all their lack of understanding can come up with. Did the same thing in the ’60s for anyone who disagreed with their war policy. They didn’t fit then either. But imperialistic fascists always fit.

    These right wing neocons virtually own the press and we’ve got to rid ourselves of them before they attempt a military dictatorship and apply all the failed Friedman policies that result in death and destruction for all but the ruling class who squeeze every last penny from it’s citizens.

    What I said is not socialism or communism but to drive these bums out is patriotism. We all know they’ve gone too far and will go much further if not stopped. I hope we do have elections but I don’t see them stepping from power graciously so be prepared because the string and tape holding everything together will break apart when a dem takes office in the WH anyway but should these neocons make it happen sooner then we will have disaster policy implemented and that will be the end of democracy as we know it. They have ransacked the country and called it capitalism.

  • GALLAGHER: That’s what he is.

    DELAY: No doubt about it.

    Slamdunk?

    With unemployment going up, up, up under the current genius capitalist in the Oval Office, I wonder if these otherwise idle people might wiki Karl Marx and/or socialism and find they aren’t nearly as scary as these two doofs make them out to be. Socialism is not only common outside the US, but fairly POPULAR. Socialism and Iraqi weapons of mass destruction…. How many boogeyman stories are Americans expected to swallow before they actually double-check everything they’re told by these little men behind the curtain throwing switches of shock and awe? Perhaps Snopes.com has taught people a thing or two about believing everything they hear?

  • I do indeed have complete contempt for American capitalism as it is played today. From the total focus on short-term over long-term thinking that would actually strengthen a company, to the greed of the corporate ruling class who loot their companies and call it progress, to the destruction of the working class (if workers can’t buy your stuff, who do you sell it to?).

    Given that, the best thing you could do for capitalism is to take these pinstriped corporate pimps – the CEOs and their co-conspirators -and put them in jail (and not in some “club fed”. Such an act) will have a very salutary effect on the operation of the system.

    And then close the “Business Schools” and abolish the MBA. Has anyone anywhere ever seen an MBA come up with what turned out to be a good idea??? (As in “a good idea” as defined as something beyond enriching himself and his boss at the expense of everyone else)

    Watching the antics of failed droolers like DeLay and otherwise unemployables like Beck and Gallagher and idiots like Rick Perry certainly does damage to the theory of dramatics that says “the hero is as good as the villain is evil.” These guys aren’t even worthwhile villains.

  • considering that Dana Perino had no idea what the cuban missile crisis was, how effective is the good old “red scare” on people under forty?

  • Even from beyond the political grave, DeLay stays in the running for the most vile and destructive individual in American public life. He’s the embodiment of what Sinclair Lewis warned about regarding fascism in America.

    And nothing gives me more satisfaction than seeing that vicious little prick still around to understand that in damaging the country, he did as much as anyone not named Bush to destroy his once-proud party.

    I doubt he could do any better telling you what a “Marxist” is than that bloated imbecile whom Chris Matthews bent over when he couldn’t explain “appeasement.”

  • Obama has certainly associated himself with a number of communists and socialists, and he was a member of the socialist New Party in Chicago. His policies are incredibly redistributive too. If he looks like a duck, hangs out with ducks and quacks like a duck, he’s probably not a swan.

  • considering that Dana Perino had no idea what the cuban missile crisis was, how effective is the good old “red scare” on people under forty? -dj spellchecka

    They aren’t targeting people under forty. I imagine this is aimed at the older folks who are as scared of red as they are of black.

  • […] even I can’t specifically state the difference between communism and socialism. — MsJoanne, @20

    Ms J, they pounded both — and he differences between them — into my head from the time I was about 5 till I left (at 23), and even I am not quite sure anymore 🙂

    But “communism” was the ultimate nirvana, something to strive for. “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs”, on the voluntary basis, out of the natural goodness of every man’s heart. No country ever achieved that exalted state; even the most advanced — USSR — was a union of *Socialist* republics…

    Socialism now… Was more like the Christianism. A way station on the way to heaven, with more varieties than Heinz. Polish version was different than Soviet version and both were different than East German, Bulgarian, Rumanian, Albanian, Yugoslavian or Czechoslovakian ones, each of which varied also. And that’s not even getting into the Asian versions (Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese and the beginnings of Indian).

    Socialisms had full functioning (and oppressive) governments but then, according to Marx, *all* governments are “tools of oppression”, which is why the communism/heaven was not supposed to have any government at all (except self-government, by the people for the people — remind you of something?). Government was a bit like church is here — it told you what to do to reach the heaven and scared the hell out of you if you didn’t follow its dictates.

  • This might be the kind of thing that could backfire quite wonderfully. I can almost imagine Obama and McCain in full-throttle debate and McCain getting angry and calling Obama a pinko faggot.

  • Obama’s (former) “church” is based on the so-called “liberation theology”. What is there from theology amounts to ridiculous, and the rest of it is the revolutuionary Marxist ideology. For 20 years Obama has known everything about this. His silence signifies its approval. Obama IS a Marxist.

  • What kills me about this “red scare” tactic is how out of touch and backward looking these people are. What, are we in the pre-90s world still? The communists are gone. It’s a system that the whole world knows is dead (Even China is no longer communist in practice, except for one party rule). These scare tactics may work with people over the age of 50 still, but the rest of us have moved into the twenty first century.

  • He is certainly a socialist. Far left of most of Europes leaders these days. He sounds like a marxist, telling us what can and can’t do ie “We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times … and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK. … That’s not going to happen.” This from his wife, “”Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. … Barack Obama will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual — uninvolved, uninformed.” Obama is going to require and demand things from me? Who the fuck does he think he is? Won’t let me live my life as usual? I love my life. He will destroy America, just watch.

  • Geez, is it Red Dawn already? How simple the Republicans are, scared of shadows. I think the only way to combat this kind of idiocy is to say: Wanting people to have jobs is socialism? Wanting children to have health care is socialism? Wanting a country to be economically sound and loved around the world is socialism? Meet this idiotic attack head on – *and then go down the long list of atrocities this country has witnessed under GWB and label them Fascist.* And just keep hammering it. When have we ever seen our country so poised to admit how fascist it’s been? And when have we ever seen a Democratic candidate come out *fighting*, putting the GOP in a defensive mode that they have to spend spend SPEND their way out of?

    I, for one, would like to see THAT. Calls ’em as we sees ’em. WOLVERINES!!!

  • I hear you number 68, but essentially, we’re all socialists…left and right. Anytime a group of people put a couple of bucks together to share assets or benefits, it’s a form of socialism.

    A neighborhood or condo association with enforceable tenets? Socialism. School vouchers financed by taxes? Socialism. Public parks with little league baseball fields? Socialism. Public roads, bridges and damns? Socialism. National defense? Socialism. Cops? Socialism. Medicare? Socialism.

    Since we’re all socialists (sort of), including Tom Delay, the debate between socialism vs. capitalism is inane? The question is, when and how does government work best vs. when and how does government do more harm than good?

  • Republicans bandy around words like socialism and marxism that they don’t even seem to understand, my god, did none of thse people take a political science or economics class in college?

    They seem to mistake the concepts of command economies/statist economies like Soviet communism, with the more Left Liberatarian views of socialism, and Marxism in its original form isn’t even really applicable anymore.

  • #66: “The communists are gone.”

    Not quite. It’s eternal. It lives in Obama and “pastor” Wright’s worldviews. It just uses different ways of masquerading itself, like a chameleon.

  • If you really believe that anything Obama or Wright says is “communist” you clearly don’t know what communism is, Jacob.

    My best friend grew up in the Czech Republic– under communism. Nothing that Obama or Hillary or any Dem says is remotely communist.

  • It could even be hiding under your bed tonight, Jacob! Better check just to be sure.

  • One of the main differences between Communism and Socialism is private ownership of the means of production.

    Consider that when you consider the rather hefty research grants given out to various quasi-private businesses in the USA.

  • Thanks, Epinnoia for that explanation.

    Amazing some of the stupidity posted today.

    Mike’s intense fear that he may have to, gasp, THINK! How dare anyone ask him to think! It’s much easier to have the Rush O’Hannity’s tell you how, what and when to think, right Sparky? They’re on your side – even though each one of those talking mouthpieces makes many millions of dollars a year. Yup, they know all your pains, down there in middle class (maybe) America, don’t they?

    Then there’s Jacob spewing words he hears other say yet doesn’t understand – on people he doesn’t like.

    The dumbing down of our society has worked splendidly for our Republicans over the last 30 years. Stupidity and greed are the only thing goopers have going for them.

    Oh, yet again, I cry for the loss of my country. All those who fought so hard for their children to have a better life then they; it was all for naught. I never had children (nor did I want them) but all the children are our collective future. They deserve more than these criminals are handing them.

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