Why Iraq’s withdrawal talk gives Obama an edge

While much of the talk was no doubt influenced by the ongoing negotiations between Iraqi officials and the Bush administration over a long-term security agreement, one of the major takeaways of the week was the frequent talk from Iraqi leaders about a U.S. withdrawal. Different officials referenced different timelines, but there was a common thread — Shi’a leaders (you know, the ones in charge) disapprove of an indefinite U.S. presence.

On Thursday, Ali al-Dabbagh said a U.S. pullout could be completed in several years. “It can be 2011 or 2012,” he said. “We don’t have a specific date in mind, but we need to agree on the principle of setting a deadline.” This prompted Spencer Ackerman to all but declare the Iraq debate over, with Barack Obama as the winner — Iraqis have rejected McCain’s policy, leaving a President Obama to negotiate the “specific date” that Iraqis are prepared to accept.

Slate’s Fred Kaplan reached a similar conclusion, noting that Obama’s policy has been “endorsed” by the prime minister of Iraq and his government.

The stab from Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki turned into a comedy routine. Maliki stated this week that he would not sign any treaty allowing U.S. armed forces to remain on his nation’s soil—the current accord, known as a Status of Forces Agreement, expires at the end of this month — unless it includes a timetable for their withdrawal.

Obama has called for just such a timetable. McCain has opposed one, famously saying that a substantial number of U.S. combat troops might need to stay in Iraq for another 100 years.

When asked about Maliki’s statement, McCain told reporters that it had been mistranslated — to which Maliki responded that, no, the English version was correct. At that point, some of McCain’s supporters said that the prime minister wasn’t serious, that he’d been forced by political constituencies to demand a timetable. Maliki again insisted that he meant what he’d said. (Even if he was caving to political pressures, one could infer that this suggests a majority of Iraqis and their major parties want us to commit to getting out in the not-too-distant future.) […]

Maliki’s insistence on this score makes life a lot easier for Obama.

That’s for sure. Americans are ready for a withdrawal; Iraqis are ready for a withdrawal; Obama has proposed a withdrawal; and the Maliki government wants a withdrawal.

The only people talking about an indefinite war, folllowed by an indefinite presence, are George W. Bush and John McCain.

Kaplan added:

McCain pressured him into planning a trip to Iraq this summer — he hadn’t been there for two years — so he can see the place up close before making judgments about its future. While he’s there, Obama will be briefed by Gen. David Petraeus and other commanders; he’ll probably also talk with junior officers and enlisted men, and with Iraqi politicians, too. Security in Iraq is better than it was a year ago. To some degree, this improvement is the result of George W. Bush’s surge (combined with Petraeus’ strategy, Muqtada Sadr’s cease-fire, the paying of many insurgents to stop shooting at us, and, most important, the alliance between U.S. forces and Sunni insurgents against the common enemy of al-Qaida — an alliance initiated by the Sunnis before the surge began).

It might have been awkward for Obama to praise the troops’ accomplishments then rapidly pull them out. But he could say, “If our friend the Iraqi prime minister wants us to set a schedule for withdrawing, well, how could any president of the United States insist otherwise?”

And that would be a tough argument to condemn. McCain’s going to try, but I don’t see it working.

I’d like to think Ackerman and Kaplan are correct, but as we’ve seen so many times, this administration is perfectly capable of doing the unthinkable when doing so serves its purposes. In this case, that would be permanent bases for maintaining security in the region — and protecting that damned oil. Keep an ear out for more administration warnings about Iran. U.S. provocation would, of course, be unthinkable, right?

  • Yes, this topic is much more important that Obama’s failure to provide gender equity in paying his own Senate office staff.

    Bravely combing the news to find any trivial indication that Obama may be edging ahead in the race. Again, I’ve got to ask, why is this race so close? Why isn’t our “candidate of a lifetime” managing to unit his own party, attract new donors (as promised) and turn the disgust with the Republicans into a clear margin in the polls? Why is patient, kind Digby knocking him?

    We are all against the war here. Some of us even want a candidate who says unequivocally that he will end it. Like Clinton did, without hedging.

  • Mary, Mary, quite contrary,
    McCain’s the real fraud.
    The straight talk express is in distress,
    With intent that’s always flawed.

  • Potty, potty, poet sublime,
    Mocking Obama’s not a crime
    We all need to keep an eye
    On this election’s tallest guy

    Leaders serve at our behest
    So we must make sure, they’re the best
    Settling for somone who tells lies
    History tells us is unwise

  • Your desperation is showing, Mary. Is there a reason you can’t discuss the topic at hand (Iraq, Maliki’s policy vs. Obama’s vs. Bush/McCain’s? Oh yeah, you’re still pissed off that Hillary LOST. Suppose you spend less time knocking Obama and more time supporting him – you know, uniting behind the Democratic candidate.

  • I’m actually quite annoyed at Obama for his office pay inequity and am looking forward to hearing what he has to say for himself about this. But I trust my saying so won’t circumvent the stroke or massive MI that Mary’s clearly about to have. It’s also seems quite possible from the quality and tone of her posts this morning that she’s been up all night drinking.

  • Really a long shot to say this favors either candidate. Obama has said he would pull “combat” troops out. Pretty big fudge factor. How long we have troops in Iraq will depend on so many other factors including what type of armaments we leave with the Iraqis including airplanes, helicopters, tanks and artillery and how much oversight and training that requires. All of that of course depends on just how “stable” the situation is and whether we can put enough trust in their leaders or ruling majority to leave them with the heavy munitions. Getting out more carefully than we went in leaves a tremendous amount of wiggle room including the meaning of time lines.

  • Well, that will teach me to trust Mary to report anything factually and honestly; it’s a mistake I’ve never made before and will never make again. From a thread below:

    18. On July 12th, 2008 at 12:17 pm, lime said:
    @mary,

    I’ve been enjoying this site for a long time and I was worried when I first read your posting on this as a female myself, I’m concerns with may woman’s rights issues.

    I first followed your link to MSN thinking that’s an interesting article, only to find out it’s a forum with a user posting a link to CNS News site. I first thought CBS vs CNS News and realized my mistake. I clicked the link the user posted on the forum only to find a NON EXISTING page. I’m not be able to find on CNS news link of the original article which you seem to quote from.

    THEN from there, I’m curious who is CNS?

    From wikipedia:

    Here’s another thing about CNS news

    I also find out that CNS news also tried to attack Rep. John P. Murtha questioning his war medals: http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16173.html#more-16173

    So I’m suppose to take this site seriously on their research on Obama?

    Nice.

    19. On July 12th, 2008 at 12:18 pm, lime said:
    Oops, missing text from wikipedia, my apologies:

    Cybercast News Service (also CNSNews.com) is a conservative news website operated by the Media Research Center.

    Critics likened the CNS article to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacks on the war record of Democrat John Kerry during the 2004 presidential campaign as another example of conservatives attempting to discredit the military credentials of Democrats in order to blunt their criticism of the Iraq war.[11]

  • Mary: As for hedging — Clinton could never bring herself to admit that she made a mistake voting to give Bush the power to wage war. If she had been able to bring herself to make a public “mea culpa”, she might be the candidate today.

    And the race being close (!?), look at these polling trends. It’s looking pretty grim for John Zuni McCain…

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/11/13428/5878

  • I disagree. Here’s what al-Dabbagh said:

    “Ali al-Dabbagh said any timetable would depend on “conditions and the circumstances that the country would be undergoing.” But he said a pullout within “three, four or five” years was possible.”” see http://donhodges.com/Iraq_exit_strategy.html

    Then he said “we need to agree on the principle of setting a deadline.” That’s clearly political nonspeak for domestic consumption in Iraq.

    So he thinks they need to agree on the principle of setting a deadline. Then they can set a timetable, which will depend on the “conditions and the circumstances that the country would be undergoing.” So maybe 3,4 or 5 years, or maybe more, or maybe a 100. There’s nothing here. It’s just political double-talk.

    It is just a waste of time trying to spin it.

    I agree the Iraqi people want us out. But they’re not calling the shots. Just like the American people want us out. But we’re not calling the shots.

    We’re not privy to what’s really going on behind the scenes, but I suspect military security for Exxon et al is a major consideration. Not the only reason we’ll be staying in Iraq, but a big part of it. There’s a hell of a lot of oil coming out of there in the next few years, and American companies have to be assured that their interests are going to be protected. There’s no way out of it.

  • I’ve rather enjoyed the restraint in completely skipping any post from “Mary”… It’s unfortunate for her, if there are many more who skip her comments. Once in a while there might be a good point in it, but I’ll never know, because I won’t take the time to read her drivel any longer.

    Too much a waste of time as 99% is made up stuff to get people upset.

    Maybe “Mary” can go somewhere else? With a better audience?

    It would be good riddance.

  • Unfortunately for American progressives and the residents of the third world, Obama is just another American imperialist. He talks about withdrawing from Iraq, but he wants to escalate the imperial war of aggression against the Afghani people. The Taliban movement in Afghanistan was originally created and armed by our CIA under President Reagan in the early 1980s to resist Soviet occupation. The Afghans are not interested in having foreign troops occupying their country, whether they be 19th century Brits, 20th century Russians or 21st century Americans.

  • The only people talking about an indefinite war, folllowed by an indefinite presence, are George W. Bush and John McCain.

    Its just because they look at foreign policy the same way.

    Neoconservatism binds them together. McCain may claim to have broken with Bush in the past, but he doesn’t here. They really are the McSame

  • Once in a while there might be a good point in it, but I’ll never know, because I won’t take the time to read her drivel any longer.

    Same here. I stopped bothering a while ago when it was clear she was nothing more than a deranged liar at best, or a McCain campaign shill at worst.

    I miss the comedic factor of her ramblings at times, but the humor I find in the fact that she still thinks anyone reads her makes up for it.

  • Not reading a control freak always makes it mad. But anything you do in reaction or not in reaction to a control freak, other than accepting its authority, makes it mad. When people read old Mary and fail to find her opinions rational, honest or intelligent, our pet crazy lady gets very, very rageful and goes on long snarling rampages like this morning’s escalating hysteria, which ended abruptly when it turned out she was using a wacko winger smear site as her definitive source on Obama.

  • It’s also seems quite possible from the quality and tone of her posts this morning that she’s been up all night drinking. — Maria, @6

    She’s not suffering from Katzenjammer (though she certainly seems to be having hiccups), she’s inflicting it on us. Or is that an un-PC thing to say about a female?

  • On long presence in Iraq, it is the three Amigos
    Bush, McSame and Dead Eye Dick.
    The same Dick that McSame said he would embrace in his cabinet.
    Linking McSame with Dickie will hurt more than links with Bush.
    Linking all three should doom the Repubs.

  • The demands by Al Maliki, his national security adviser, and Al Sistani that President Bush must set a timetable for the complete withdrawal of all foreign troops from Iraq totally demolishes McCain’s (and probably Bush’s) feverish fantasy of an indefinite and “cordial” encampment of US military in Iraq a la South Korea, Japan, or Germany. Hey Mack, the governments of South Korea, Japan, and Germany have NEVER demanded that we take our entire military out or don’t you know that? It does not matter whether President Bush accepts their demands or not, it does not matter whether Al Maliki’s government is overthrown by a coup, your crazy plan is toast. It is already kaput in the eyes of the Iraqi people which is what really counts. In the cases of Korea, Japan, and Germany the others were the attackers. We invaded Iraq. Hence, don’t try to fool me with your bullshit.
    The notion that the Al Maliki’s/Al Sistani demands have “endorsed” Senator Obama’s plan is equally if not even more ludicrous. At this time Obama only plans to withdraw “combat units” and leave American non-combat units and the Blackwater goons behind among an armed and angry population. That is not what Al Maliki/Al Sistani demand Obama has yet to tell us for how long these troops should stay behind. Is it 4, 8, or 100 years Bambi? Ah, I forgot, it is “the commanders on the ground” who will decide that for you.
    It is now pretty obvious to me that it does not matter in Al Maliki’s political world who the next President of the USA is going to be. He already distrusts and possibly despises both of them although he is savvy enough to never let that out. It is entirely possible that the feelings are mutual!

  • There is no “war”. It is an occupation. We have been policing a country as occupiers.

    from Driftglass:
    “…. Never trust these motherfuckers. Ever. They will never leave the business of winning and losing to anything that smells of “free and fair”, because they know if they do they’ll lose every time. Every game they run is crooked, every piety they utter is a lie, and every deck they deal from is stacked, marked and frozen.
    So…
    2. Never, ever fight them on ground of their choosing….”

    What the hell does Obama plan to learn from visiting that dog and pony show. He can only go where they take him…only see what they show him, and the whole time he will be ‘protected’ by the same people that want to see him destroyed. Hagel is easily a repub these neocons could sacrifice to demonstrate any terrorist attack is bipartisan.

    Polls are all wrong…the reality is that it is not even close yet the MSM would like to convince us it is so it will not look like stealing when the vote counters cheat. FISA alone has taken much of the OBAMA enthusiam away but McCain is a fucking joke.

    A disabled angry self centered old man who refuses to accept his limitations despite the negative effects it would have on the country. Don’t be fooled. Obama will win in a landslide if the votes are fairly counted. Not even republicans can stand another 4yrs of this current disaster. Using a McCain win as blackmail to manipulate behavior is actually just fear-mongering.

    The public has seen the McCain illusion shattered too many times to start believing it now.

  • Well, this whole Obama-paying-women-on-his-staff thing made me a tad curious. I did a search on the internets tube using the Google, with the search criteria “Obama’s staff” and “equal pay.” The first link was to the aforementioned CNS site, a link which no longer works. No matter, the 2nd link was to that bastion of honesty, free republic, who copied and pasted the original CNS story & accredited the author “Fred Lucas” (if the CNS News link under the headline is any indication as to the source).

    Here are the first two sentences, the money-phrases I’ve highlighted.

    “While Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has vowed to make pay equity for women a top priority if elected president, an analysis of his Senate staff shows that ***women are outnumbered and out-paid by men.***

    That is in contrast to Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s Senate office, where ***women, for the most part, out-rank and are paid more than men.***”

    Now, for all I know, Obama is a complete and total douche nozzle about pay equity, but here’s what I found interesting: The article specifies that on McCain’s staff, “women, for the most part, out-rank and are paid more than men.” Well, I’d certainly hope so. You have a higher position, you ought to make more for it. Right?

    But for Obama, there’s no mention as to whether or not the men on his staff, in general, outrank women. Just that they outnumber them. Hmmmmmm…

    Could this be a sin of omission? The uninitiated is led to think “well, if the men on Obama’s staff outranked the women, the article would mention it, just as it mentions that many women on McCain’s staff outrank men.”

    That could be true. It could also be true that author of the article WANTS readers to think & believe that, when it’s entirely possible that more of the men on Obama’s staff outrank women. If that were the case, then it would make sense that those men would get paid more. After all, they juggle more responsibility, they should get paid more, just as on the women on McCain’s staff. Right?

    And since men outnumber women on Obama’s staff, even simple statistics would dictate that more men probably have positions of power in his staff than women.

    Until/unless we were to get a staff directory of each campaign, which would include people’s positions AND salaries, there’d be no way of knowing. I’d think that Fred Lucas, who wrote the original CNS story, must have had access to this information. Why he’d choose to omit that information is a mystery to me. After all, if women on Obama’s staff outranked men AND were paid less, that would really REALLY bolster the claim that pay inequity lives. Wouldn’t it? But if more men outrank women on Obama’s staff…well then, that wouldn’t prove anything…unless you were willing to obfuscate that salient point, so stupid readers would infer that Obama is a hypocrite on this issue. Too bad Fred Lucas didn’t opt to share that info, otherwise…you know…there’d be no room to guess.

    This gives people like Mary permission to keep assuming that Obama is paying the women on his staff less than men, for the same jobs, for less money.

    It also gives me the confidence to say Mary can lick my ass until it’s as sore and scabby as a baby starfish.

    And on a final note, it’s so swell that McCain’s staff has more women than men. Yes, the idea that a serial womanizer who left his injured wife and children for a woman significantly younger and richer than his first wife…a man who had to be told by members of his staff that a relationship he was having with a hotter-than-usual lobbyist was bordering on the inappropriate…that a man such as this would opt to fill so many key positions on his staff with women, giving those women statistically more access to his valuable time than to the men on his staff…well, that’s just refreshing. Isn’t it? Mary, I can see why you’d vote for such a maverick. You’re so bold, so principled, the idea of you voting for McCain must make you positively…moist with patriotism.

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