Why the ABC debate sparked so much outrage

I had thought there was something of a consensus in Democratic circles about Wednesday night’s ABC-sponsored debate in Philadelphia. Dems hated it because Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos spent most of the debate obsessing over trivia and process, and when they got around to substance, they framed the questions in conservative ways. Republicans loved the debate, because it played out exactly as they wanted. Journalists and media critics hated it because it was a train-wreck.

Somehow, over the last few days, this consensus has been replaced by a new Clinton-Obama dynamic that doesn’t make any sense to me.

The Politico’s John Harris and Jim VandeHei argued the negative reaction to the debate has been driven by “Obama partisans … who are doing the whining.”

The shower of indignation on Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos over the last few days is the clearest evidence yet that the Clintonites are fundamentally correct in their complaint that she has been flying throughout this campaign into a headwind of media favoritism for Obama.

Last fall, when NBC’s Tim Russert hazed Clinton with a bunch of similar questions — a mix of fair and impertinent — he got lots of gripes from Clinton supporters.

But there was nothing like the piling on from journalists rushing to validate the Obama criticisms and denouncing ABC’s performance as journalistically unsound.

The response was itself a warning about a huge challenge for reporters in the 2008 cycle: preserving professional detachment in a race that will likely feature two nominees, Obama and John McCain, who so far have been beneficiaries of media cheerleading.

To hear Harris and VandeHei tell it, when journalists trash Clinton, bloggers and media elites sit on their hands. When they trash Obama, as they did on Wednesday night, those same voices rise up in righteous indignation.

I think this badly misses the point of the reaction to the debate. Indeed, I think it’s largely factually wrong, too.

First, my sense is that critics of the Philadelphia debate made no distinction between Clinton and Obama. The problem was that Gibson and Stephanopoulos did a poor job with both candidates. Clinton and Obama were both subjected to unimportant questions about process and mini-controversies, and then both were quizzed on substantive issues from a conservative point of view.

Observers were saying, “Why devote the first hour to nonsense?” not, “Why were you mean to Obama?”

Second, the assertion that somehow observers have been passive about anti-Clinton attacks in the media strikes me as completely mistaken.

As Steve M. noted the other day, there was significant push-back last fall against ridiculous Democratic debate moderators when Clinton was the principal target; and Digby also highlighted the fact that bloggers were nearly apoplectic towards MSNBC when Chris Matthews (among others) kept peddling misogynistic nonsense, most of which targeted Clinton.

Does everything have to be seen through a Clinton vs. Obama lens? Can’t an awful debate be described as such because it really was awful, not because one candidate felt the brunt of the inanity more than the other?

For many Dems, the dynamic that matters here is Democrats vs. the media, not Clinton vs. Obama.

I was in journalism for 30 years (no longer, and not my choice). The trade’s abiding sin is this-they can dish it out, but they can’t take it. Thinner skins you’ll never find. They will lie about this event until they go to their graves.

  • John Harris and Jim VandeHei are in fact both corporate repiglicans who have an invested interest in maintaining the coporate support of McSame. So read their blather in that context.

  • Another reason for this level of outrage might be found in the way ABC presented the debate. Speaking only for myself, there was something disquieting about above the bias and banality of the questions. And I finally figured out what it is.

    Consider the way the debate was scheduled. Prime time. Tape delayed for the West Coast. Commercial breaks. This was not staged as a news event or a public service. This was never intended to be a real debate, or anything like it. This was more like Wednesdy Night Raw. And given the sorry state of the country right now, we really can’t afford having our presidential election treated so cavalierly.

    That said, what’s stopping either of the candidates from responding to idiot questions with something like, “That’s a stupid question, George — no disrespect. So I’m not going to waste my or the voters’ time answering it. Instead, I’m going to talk about health care, an issue of real concern to most Americans. Including, I bet, a lot of those who work for this network.”

  • People are unhappy about the quality of the debate moderators and their lame questions , because, ya know, they sucked. Big Time, if you will, as Cheney would say.

  • This is a near replay of 2006’s WHCD and Stephen Colbert. The media stated that SC’s searing speech was “not funny or fun” and stated that the Bush impersonator was funnier. The MSM fled screaming as millions watched the Youtube video and turned on them till no one remembers that there was a Bush impersonator that night.

    Fastforward two years later and we have the MSM sniffing that it was all Obama supporters whining and crying about this lousy debate when the vast majority of the comments on ABC’s own website torn into them.

  • To the extend that Clinton piled on when Obama was the target whereas Obama pleaded for sanity during the debate, there is a Clinton vs. Obama dimension to this dispute.

  • ABC went into the debate with the next day’s headlines already written: Obama on the defensive all night long. Part of it was the questions, part was Hillary. But I would suggest that they also had the next day’s headlines written: Democrats a bunch of whiners. As someone once said, if you can’t argue with what they said, argue against what they didn’t say and pretend they did.

  • Exactly right. The outrage was not because of a bias against Obama. The outrage was over a bias in favor of Stupid.

  • I think we can all agree the “flag pin” question was a bit much, though I didn’t realize “the women on the street” who asked the question was actually someone the NY Times quoted about this, but all these other questions really were legitimate. The media has focused on the Rev. Wright and “bitter” remarks ad nauseum, and this IS the first debate held since these issues came up.

    But the larger point is that of the other 20-something debates, many of them focused rather harshly on Clinton’s negatives. This ONE debate was more focused on Obama’s, the front runner’s, negatives, and the whining is deafening – just deafening. I think that highlights pretty starkly just how great the bias in the media really is.

    Let’s face it, if Obama had actually performed well, no one would be saying a word, other than to praise how he tough he is. If Obama makes it to the general election, you can bet he’s going to get roughed up plenty and that these issues are going to come up again.

    This entire argument highlights IMO a greater issue, the liberal media’s overwhelming favoritism toward Obama, and that’s actually the more substantive issue here. When Clinton was the front-runner, that was the “excuse” for her getting the majority of the hammering.

    I know Obama supporters and the Obamedia are angry about this debate – well take a walk in my shoes. This is how the frustraition feels when the media is unduly influencing this election.

    Obama sure never complained about being the liberal media’s darling for all these months. So . . . he can cry me a river. He’s still way ahead on the media bias scale.

  • The main criticism I have of both of them is that they haven’t worked out a way around this kind of crap, when its predictability is just shy of “If you invade Iraq there’s gonna be an insurgency.”

    It doesn’t seem that hard to simply turn the questions back on these guys, especially when–as the booing at the end indicated–the vast majority of us are sick and tired of this crap. “Look, I’ve tried to take your questions in earnest but are you really going to ask me about lapel pins when millions are losing their houses and neighborhoods are turning to ghost towns all over America? Lapel pins?? We have this tiny amount of time before the American public and THAT is what you want to waste it on? Do you really have such contempt for them that you think THAT is the question they most want answered in these perilous times?”

    Put THEM on the defensive for godsake. I swear the first candidate who finally does this is going to ride a wave of popularity so huge it might just conceivably shut some of these blowdried chuckleheads up for about five minutes.

  • Well—I guess now everyone knows why I don’t spend a great deal of effort reading POO-LITICO!!! Especially with the price of toilet paper going up….

  • “First, my sense is that critics of the Philadelphia debate made no distinction between Clinton and Obama. The problem was that Gibson and Stephanopoulos did a poor job with both candidates”

    B.S. It has been suggested Stephanopoulos was favouring Clinton.

    Just watched “This Week” and supportive of their debate. What’s the big deal? … they raise good points… OBAMA can’t seem to handle the pressure and how is he going to change Washington + he plays the same games. When he started he was more appealing, but the further this goes he loses his appeal.

  • To JMG…your comment is absolutely 100% on the mark…the Press is NEVER wrong…they can badger others but will never acknowledge their own errors in judgment.

  • Teri: I thought Obama did just fine. Not his best, but not awful, which is what I had been led to believe from reading about the debate before I watched my recording. After having to explain for the umpteeth time about Wright, bittergate and the nonsensical flag pin “issues”, Obama did seem a bit weary (or wary) by the second hour. But he did a good job answering the questions.

    And Obama never “whined” about the “tough” (read stupid) questions. He instead tried to re-route the debate towards issues that are actually important to the American people and came to Hillary’s defense on Bosniagate. Unfortunately she didn’t return his graciousness.

    And plenty of people did come to Hillary’s defense when she was being hammered. So give it a rest.

  • Panel members on this morning’s talk shows largely supported George S. and Gibson’s line of questioning for the reason that it helps to reveal “character” that would not be revealed with policy questions alone. But this questioning can quickly cascade into a media avalanche from which all following media coverage takes its cues. For example, Gore’s “exaggerations” became the lens through which much of the media covered him in the 2000 campaign. His character was reduced to not being as likeable as GW and that was all the public needed to know about him. And look at what we ended up with — a president who was more like us? No, some dipshit that was stupider than the average american because the media really fucked up and played up the Republican story line. I mean, the media is attempting to force some stereotypical image of the average american on who we should be choosing for president. This is just bullshit!

  • Maybe Obama should take the initiative on this after Tuesday and suggest this:

    Old fashioned debate where:
    1. opponents provide their own questions of other opponent.
    2. strict time limits and format
    3. trained debate judges to keep score (based on form, not positions)

    I think they have something like this in the Senate, except for 3, so maybe they could adopt Senate ‘rules’ to debate.

    What this would reveal is:
    1. what each candidate thinks are the other candidate’s weaknesses.
    2. how candidates would frame the debate.
    3. use and abuse of facts and argument

    The bottom line is that if Obama really wants to change the way things are in Washington, why not change the way we get information from candidates.

    IMO, the media likes nothing more than being at the center of the discussion, setting the agenda, framing the discussion, and being part of what is talked about.

    Instead, Obama could propose a lightning round in the weeks to come. Sit down for 30-60 minutes at a time at shared rallies. Use YouTube to publish the results.

    If you want to empower the voters, you could pass out and collect surveys about what issues are important to them. Given the outcome of that vote, the candidates could pick a category (like reverse jeopardy). Once the proportional number of question on a given topic are finished, no more can be asked.

    Then after the debate, we, the people, can still debate the questions which were asked, the way they were asked, and how well they were answered.

    Once Obama makes this proposal, we would find out just how serious Hillary is about the bring ’em on stuff, or who needs to get out of the kitchen.

  • The debate was just what I’ve come to expect from TeeVee: a game of whack-a-mole featuring celebrities Gibson and Stephanopoulos vying for gotcha points, in between loads of corporate advertising over airwaves owned and long-time licensed, without review, by what used to be our government.

    As I suggested the day after the travesty, Clinton III and Obama should’ve taken it out onto the sidewalk, a form of “street theater” which they could at least control. Debating each other out there, surrounded by real people, free of advertising, recorded on a dozen cellphones and played back on YouTube and discussed by bloggers and their commenters … now there would have been real democracy.

    Corporate TeeVee and corporate news? Who needs ’em?

  • The problem with this “new” argument about how liberals/left were hard on Matthews and others for Clinton bashing is that few of Obama’s followers chimed in about the treatment. I read comments all over the blogosphere blaming Clinton for her problems and accusing her of ducking the answers or outright lying to the “moderators.”

    Obama people can say now that they were all over the media back when, but it just is not so. Obama followers have been trashing Hillary Clinton all over the blogosphere for months with little pushback or objection from so-called “fair” news analysts (like Carpetbagger and others). There has in fact been more than a fair amount of gloating over Clinton’s “gotcha” questions by the media.

    And if you have any doubt, I suggest you review the litany of comments on various blog sites over the months showing just what I talked about.

    This is the problem I have with my “progressive” Democratic friends – still dominated too much by white men and people who always seem to be blindsided to sexism and misogyny among their own. There are a FEW notable exceptions (MyDD, BTD, Daily Howler, and perhaps a singular commentator posting at HuffPost), but they are the RARE exceptions.

    Sorry. But I don’t accept the outrage by Obama followers/supporters now after Obama was put under the light on Wednesday.

  • The worst justification for the questions which were asked is that this was the 21st debate, and everything had been asked and answered many times before. If this was so then:

    1. why have the debate? What value did ABC see in it and what value did the candidates see in it?

    2. Why would anyone watch if all the important questions were asked and answered?

    3. Isn’t PA voting soon? I thought the media is fond of pointing out that voters don’t tune in until the election nears, so the obvious reason to ask important questions is that voters were interested in hearing about issues important to them. Some PA polling has asked voters what issue was most important to them in this election, nothing in the first hour was in the top 7-8 listed.

    4. Why two hours, if you can ask everything in one hour?

    5. The topics in hour one were discussed to death prior to the debate, most for at least a week!

  • The problem with this “new” argument about how liberals/left were hard on Matthews and others for Clinton bashing is that few of Obama’s followers chimed in about the treatment. I read comments all over the blogosphere blaming Clinton for her problems and accusing her of ducking the answers or outright lying to the “moderators.”

    I’m no longer a Hillary fan, but Matthews is an idiot.

    Think about how Hillary complains compared to Obama. When Wright came out, did he instantly complain about the media? No. Eventually he complained about one part of the coverage: the endless loop of Wright’s Greatest Hits.

    Clinton complains in an attempt to get the media/opponents to back off. They called on Schuster to get fired. Demanded Power be fired, but the never address the subjec of the debate.

    Obama gave a major speech about Wright and Race.

    He does this because as soon as you expand the context of the subject he wins, with Hillary and McCain, not so much, things just get worse.

    Notice that the last audio tape scandal. With Obama, the more context the better. But Hillary had here chief strategist on Meet the Press and he confirmed that Hillary dissed active Democrats, those who had the gall to show up and caucus.

    But Matthews is still a balloon head.

  • The fact of the matter is that we simply do not have a tv news media anymore. We have infotainment, delivered by insipid, inane infotainers. Gibson, Wold Blitzer, Bill O’Reilly, Chris Mathews, Keith Olberman are all glorified sideshow barkers, who have a vested interest in preserving politics as usual — because it means they don’t have to work anymore and they will still get paid big bucks, just for showing up and running their mouths nonstop about nonsense. They are not journalists.

    America will be better off when we all stop watching this garbage, and instead get our news from noncommercial sources, such as therealnews.com, Freespeach TV, Current — or from internet search engines, such as google.

  • Problems this country is facing:
    Increasing number of uninsured
    People who are uninsured, losing everything they have due to grossly inflated hospital bills.
    Health insurance execs taking home multi million dollar salaries while the company denies care payments for no reason at all.
    tripling of gas prices since 2000, now at $.50 for regular, and over $4.00 for diesel. the high cost of diesel is bankrupting truckers, who transport our food.
    A collapsing housing market, and foreclosures at an all time high.
    fast rising food prices
    A war on Iraq based on lies. Proven lies.
    A Chief executive that approves torture
    A government that believes it can spy on any one it chooses
    A plummeting UD dollar
    US companies closing US plants and shipping jobs overseas.
    A huge debt to Communist China
    New Orleans and the Gulf Coast still in ruins because the government has, unlike previous administrations, refused to do anything.
    The person who was the mastermind of 9/11, is still free, and Bush says “he doesn’t concern me at all.”
    Al Quida, never in Iraq until Bush invaded it, is now a growing force.

    And What kind of question did those two clowns ask? Trite, gotcha questions, barely worthy of the National Enquirer. Questions that had no relevance to the problems America faces.

    ABC made an idiot of itself, and yet tries to justify its idiocy.

  • The fact is — if the tables had been turned in this debate and the questions for the first 45 minutes had been aimed largely against Clinton instead of Obama, then MoveOn, DailyKos, and the myriad “critics” in the Obamedia would have been silent at best, and probably would have stepped up and defended ABC for performing an important ‘vetting’ of Clinton had any Clintonites complained.

    This whole faux controversy reeks of gross hypocrisy, and Harris and VandeHei are 100% correct. Twenty debates went by with lots of questions about ‘issues’. but let a few pointed questions get directed at ObaBaby in one single debate and the internet hypocrites are swinging their pitchforks.

  • IT WAS AWFUL BECAUSE IT IS A DISTRACTION. WE CAN’T BE DISTRACTED FROM THE WAR, THE ECONOMY, THE POOR, THE CRUMBLING INFRASTRUCTURE, THE MOUNTING DEBT ETC.

    ONLY IF THE VOTERS ARE DISTRACTED FROM THEIR OWN ECONOMIC INTERESTS WILL THE WRONG PEOPLE GET IN OFFICE AGAIN.

    I EXPECT THEY WILL AGAIN BRING UP NON ISSUES LIKE GAY MARRIAGE, AND ABORTION, TO DISTRACT THE VOTERS AGAIN.

  • Second, the assertion that somehow observers have been passive about anti-Clinton attacks in the media strikes me as completely mistaken.

    You are completely mistaken. When Russet and Williams attacked Clinton with their phony quotes and trivial questions, both Edwards and Obama joined in. Not one Obama supporter complained. While some media critics ridiculed NBC & MSNBC, there was not the huge outcry we now have. The media has its standards: Clinton Rules, in which any smear, slime or lie is acceptable; McCain Rules, in which any misstatement is ignored and every effort is made to aid the candidate. Democratic blogs have substituted McCain Rules with Obama Rules, in which his supporters whine, ‘how dare they’ even though they themselves stoop to GOP talking points for their expression of Clinton rules.

  • April 20, 2008: today happens to be the 119th anniversary of the birth of Hillary Clinton’s identical twin. Hillary is of course a medical phenominon, having an identical twin, born to different parents…and 58 1/2 yrs apart. there does happen to be a noticeable difference in the “identical” reference…as Hillary, of course, has more balls than Adolph ever thought of having.

    Remember, all, that a venemous liar such as Hillary, cannot be debated. How can anyone waste their time trying to debate a “polished liar”. She and Bill, both, should be imprisoned for life for all the damage they’ve done to this country. Eight years of their “white trash in the White House” was enough for eternity. Obama will win…and I can just see Hillary now, working the crowd at the Inauguration, still trying to corner delegates. SNL should do a skit about that. It would receive even higher ratings than ABC’s recent “train wreck”. They could title it: “Carpet Bag Lady hunts for Supporters”.

    The next debate, if any, should be between the official Republican and Democrat Nominees. Those of course will be: John McCain and Barack Obama.

    Swallow hard Hillary, it’s almost over. Forget about Health Insurance…I just happened to think about Life Insurance. WOW…is there any company that would ever consider writing a Life Insurance Policy on the life of Hillary Clinton??? Please let me know…so that I never consider buying their stock.

    Now vote “your way”. Like Frank Sinatra, I’ll be able to soon say..”I did it my way.”

    Oliver 4/20/2008

  • The media have always attacked our strongest leaders. They savaged the Clintons in the nineties and called Al Gore a liar nonstop for using a figure of speech about his work on internet law. Now they’re after the Clintons again. If they can’t have another puppet in the presidency, a weakling is the next best thing. The sad part is watching the Obama crowd fall like a ton of bricks for shallow insults and transparant spin. They ate it with a shovel, and in three seconds were copying the style and content of the bile monsters. It’s ironic that the far left can be played so easily played by corporate media. But they live in a dream world and voted en mass for Nader, which gave us eight years of Bush. So nothing they do should surprise us.
    http://a-civilife.blogspot.com

  • Will (#33): “But they live in a dream world and voted en mass for Nader, which gave us eight years of Bush.”

    Speaking of living in a dream world. Gore won in 2000. The Bush Crime Family stole it for the Shrub.

  • The questions at the debate were inane or disingenous (i.e. does Rev. Wright love America…). The questions seem to be written up by the RNC. In the first hour people called and complained about the debate. Even though Obama’s performance was mediocre that doesn’t change the fact that the questions were stupid or disingenous. As Democrats we have to stop being hostages to the RNC and the media

  • Mike and others; How do you know “not one Obama supporter complained?” I’m planning to vote for Obama, and will give to his campaign — but I still take issue with him about many issues — not on the manufactured distractions.

    For instance, he is a Constitutional lawyer. Why did he sit in Congress for the past four years and do absolutely nothing to further the impeachment movement against the criminal administration? He, Hillary and McCain took an oath to ‘protect the Constitution of the United STates of America against all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC.” Not one of them have upheld their oaths.

    Warrantless wiretapping is a felony. Clear and simple. And then there’s torture, taking the country to war under false pretenses. Repeatedly lying to Congress. Outing a CIA agent — and then pardoning the perpetrator. The list goes on. And if Obama was so opposed to the war, why did he rubber stamp every funding request Bush made in the past four years? And why did he vote for those oil company tax breaks? And send someone from his campaign to Canada, to tell the government “don’t worry about the anti-NAFTA campaign rhetoric”

    At the same time, Obama is mature, unflappable, brilliant, highly educated and charismatic. This is the one time in my life when I will be voting for “the man” — not on the issues, (because he and Clinton are virtually identical on the issues.) The brains, the temperament and the fact that he makes Americans feel good again is worth a lot. He will be a president that most of the country will respect and like.

    Many Democrats support him — but we do not owe him mindless loyalty — unlike Bush supporters. Unlike Republicans.

  • Democrats, including Obama supporters, felt insulted by the rightwing, gossipy questions.
    No one, not even Obama supporters, mind some gossip questions sprinkled in at Obama. But, it was mostly about that and not about policy.
    The media is looking, again, for easy ways to paint the outrage because they dearly want to hold on to their 20 year old way of looking at politics. It’s all about gotcha and trivial. If the people are angry with that and want real substance, then they are in trouble and lord knows it would be so much fun for them. They are like the gossipy old ladies of another era.
    So, what is the easy answer to brush off the fact that the media is failing to do it’s job? Blame it on Obama’s supporters.
    They can frame things this way for the general, just like latching onto the supposed elitist label that they are all obsessing on now, but, help out their beloved McCain by saying it’s not that they favor McCain but, that Obama’s supporter (i.e.: all democrats) are just whiney.

  • While reading comments I just remembered something. I saw some of the debates Obama had when running for senate with Keyes.
    Obama was very good.
    But, the debates were substance driven and not about entertainment.
    Keyes tried some rightwing personality slams but, Obama just rolled his eyes and shook his head.
    It seems that if Obama comes off not as strong is that he really objects to the trivial stuff in the media style debates and wants a really substantive one. And the more silly the debate is, the more he rebels.
    I would urge people to just take a few minutes to see some tape of the old debates in Illinois and see the difference.

  • I should also point out that there was a racial subtext to the questions. Many black bloggers felt that it was a lynching. What I mean by is that how many times Obama will have to answer questions concerning Farrakhan and Rev, Wright.

  • 45 min b4 a question that effects the american people is asked

    what we had here were right wing gotcha boys running the show.

    There idea was to discredit obama right away b4 he could gather an enthusiasm and keep him on the defensive naturally hillary liked the setup as george stepanopolis was part of her husbands adminastration.

    Pretty smart repubs. AS for ABC i wil make sure never to tune to you again
    shame on you ABC

  • Ed: Speaking of outrage, where’s Mary?

    Did you skim mabelle at post 21?

    Old trolls never die… they just de-swanify their screen names.

    Mabelle is the Mary who was Anne…

    *sigh*

  • This is an open letter to George and Charlie about the debate. This is the best rebuff I have seen.

    http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041708B.shtml

    This has nothing to do with either Clinton or Obama but the abysmal performance of the people in charge of the debate.

    I wrote ABC and told them my thoughts on the debate and that I will never watch ABC again. If I wanted propaganda I’d go to Fox.

    This is the epitome of why Americans are so stupid. No matter what flavor of televised “news” one gets, it’s not news. It’s all agenda driven. And we all lose.

  • so now Obama is playing Clarence Thomas and he and his supporters are going to claim any criticism is a ‘lynchin’. Totally cynical and manipulative then and it is now.
    Just face it Obama’s been propped up by the media and now that they are treating him like a regular candidate- his flaws are glaring.
    Nov. is looking good for the GOP
    because the dems were stupid enough to throw away good substantive candidates because they fell for a sham.

  • Jammie,

    Stop assuming that it was the Obama campaign who thought it was a lynching. Go read the black blogs like Jack and Jill Politics, etc. People do not need the Obama campaign to think for themselves.

  • Given that “The Politico” was founded as a Republican disinformation campaign, why is anyone surprised that these two hacks are spreaders of Republican bullshit??

    Of course, Hill and Billary are spreading it too, which further proves my point of why one needs to keep the option open of voting Litle Yellow Dog For President ’08.

  • At the ABC website on the debate story, there is a message board for responses. Almost all of the posts are critical of ABC but a huge number of critical posts are being continuously deleted. As far as I can tell they leave all pro-ABC posts, and they also leave posts that are critical but stupid, with silly remarks and spelling errors. Certain criticisms will get a post erased in seconds: comparing ABC’s tactics in the debate to Fox News, talking about Gibson’s faults as a journalist, and especially saying that Stephanopolous favors Clinton. Total censorship for those posts at ABC–it’s hilarious and pathetic.

  • MY FELLOW “BITTER”, STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE 🙂

    If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of “BITTER”!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. 🙁

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary’s than they had ever been before or since.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. 🙂

    Best regards

    jacksmith… Working Class 🙂

    p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you don’t know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering…

    You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. 🙂

    Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don’t die from. And I could go on, and on…

  • I didn’t see the full debate but I did see several of the questions in question. I think the moderators had to basic flaws in their approach that they have no excuse for. The first is the question order. You don’t lead with the mud. Good debates lead with the most impactful issues, put into their most recent context (ex. Petreus testimony and Iraq or Jimmy Carter and Hammas/Middle East, ect.), then you fill-in with the dirt. The second and more common error was in the structure of the questions themselves. There is a difference between the questions you ask in an interview and those you ask in a debate. The first 45 minutes were interview questions. You don’t ask someone why they choose not to wear a flag pin and ask the opponent to comment on their answer. That’s not a debate.

  • @jacksmith,

    First of all you’re giving any Jack Smith a bad name.

    Finally, do you have any new material?

  • For me this is just one more example of Hillary being far more of a Republican than she is a Democrat. Obama is focused on issues and solutions, Hillary is focused on getting what she wants, damn the consequences. It’s that “I’ve got mine, so f–k you” mentality. And Hillary’s supporters are becoming just like the dittoheads they’ve claimed to loathe so much over the last eight years. They follow the spin. Instead of focusing on the REAL problem here, AKA the absolutely pathetic level of the so-called “debate”, they buy the spin and focus on what they think will help their candidate. Congrats, you lovely useful idiots, Rove is laughing all the way to his next administration.

  • Amazed at how many people are still swallowing that “liberal media” canard. That Kool Aid must taste delicious. The point is not that Obama can’t take tough questions, stand the heat, the pressure, whatever. It’s that it’s all manufactured, stupid, and a corporate distraction. The American People don’t want it anymore. That’s what Obama represents more than the other candidates at this point. He wins, they lose. Period!

  • It is remarkable that a debate can be conducted in which Clinton states that not only would she attack with massive retaliation should Iran attack Israel, but that her wide Middle Eastern umbrella policy is now such that should Iran have conflict with any nation in the entire region, she would involve US troops.

    Mrs. Clinton stated, for the first time, that it is now the US purpose to play world policeman for the entire region, and in a land where conflicts are business as usual, now every country’s fight is ours.

    Astonishing. Yet, neither George nor Charlie raised an eyebrow at this! No follow up. No demand for clarification. Instead, back to the Weather Underground…

    Speaking of which, isn’t it about time that someone notes, while calling the Weathermen a “terrorist organization”, that they were unique in the history of revolutionary movements?

    What other “terrorist organization” made it a point never to hurt human beings? What other organization attacked buildings and objects, usually after closing when no one was around? What “terror organization” outside a Disney movie attempted to halt an unjust war by solely attacking inanimate objects?

    What other organization managed to go until their dissolution (in 1976) without having ever killed an innocent human being, having only managed to kill three of their own members while constructing a bomb?

    Why doesn’t George wonder aloud why Mr. Ayers never served any jail time? Ask why most members received clemency under the draft dodger amnesty provision? Why pretend that the Weathermen were Al-Qaeda?

    No, better to just label them a “terrorist organization” so the historically illiterate American populace can be duped yet again (a la WMD) into believing the Weathermen were the second coming of the Baader-Meinhof group.

    Disgraceful performance, ABC “News”

  • And there goes yet another self-proclaimed-holier-than-thou-educated-elitist-leftist liberal who thinks he/she knows better than the rest. You are exactly like the Jack Cafferty’s, Keith Dobermann’s and Chris Mathews. There is no difference between your opinion and theirs. You all pretend as if you can ANALYSE, DIGEST AND PRESENT succinctly the “happenings” to us lesser mortals. Guess what I have a brain of my own. And I will continue to vote for a candidate or watch a TV show or vote republican because I am tired of this BullShit. Where the heck was this indignation and why-oh-why did NIRVANA come to you so late? What a piece of crap. And you call this journalism. Every dumb(*&(& has a website. Every idiot has keyboard and an internet connection (including myself) and we can spout away whatever the (self-righteous) crap that we want to spew. I AM TIRED OF ALL OF YOU.

  • Whoever wrote this article needs to kick himself in the NADS or some other nether regions. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THERE IS ANY POLICY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO NUMBSKULLS running for the nomination? They are identical. If the Great Rev WRIGHT backed OBAMA can say something more meaningful than “HOPE AND CHANGE” and care to give a frickin’ explanation of whatever the F*** that means – maybe, mind you MAYBE, I’ll vote for him. Other than fricking repeating like a parrot “not same old washington politics” and really discuss POLICY then maybe it is worth having a debate with that frickin’ arrogant elitist dumb***. NOT ONE Frickin’ straight answer comes out of his well rehearsed mouth. Once you take the teleprompter away he sucks. He could not even answer a simple question on “CAPITAL GAINS”. So what the F*** are you talking about that there were no policy questions. And besides I know he will REPEAT whatever senator clinton says and then add “we will change how washington works” at the end. Gimme a break. SO YES, I ENJOYED THE DEBATE. HE SQUIRMED LIKE A slippery EEL that he is. I want to KNOW WHERE HE GETS THOSE 40M. AND I WANT TO KNOW how much of it came from SOROS/MOVEON.ORG. Wake up you idiots. In 2008 YOU VOTED for a candidate called LIL’ BUSH coz YOU “LIKED HIM”. YOu voted with YOUR HEARTS. And look what YOU got US into. And NOW YOU ARE MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE. WAKE UP. Enough is ENOUGH

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