Willful ignorance confounds some Obama skeptics

The widespread confusion about Barack Obama’s religion, background, and patriotism continues to vex me. The WaPo has a front-page item on the subject today that didn’t make me feel any better. The piece focused on a small town in Ohio called Findlay.

On his corner of College Street, Jim Peterman stares at the four American flags planted in his front lawn and rubs his forehead. Peterman, 74, is a retired worker at Cooper Tire, a father of two, an Air Force veteran and a self-described patriot. He took one trip to Washington in 1989 — best vacation of his life — and bought a statue of the Washington Monument that he still displays in a glass case in his living room.

He believes a smart vote is an American’s greatest responsibility. Which is why his confusion about Barack Obama continues to eat at him.

On the television in his living room, Peterman has watched enough news and campaign advertisements to hear the truth: Sen. Barack Obama, born in Hawaii, is a Christian family man with a track record of public service. But on the Internet, in his grocery store, at his neighbor’s house, at his son’s auto shop, Peterman has also absorbed another version of the Democratic candidate’s background, one that is entirely false: Barack Obama, born in Africa, is a possibly gay Muslim racist who refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

“It’s like you’re hearing about two different men with nothing in common,” Peterman said. “It makes it impossible to figure out what’s true, or what you can believe.”

Peterman sounds sincere, and inclined to vote Democratic, but conflicted. A friend told him that Obama refuses to wear an American-flag pin. Another friend told him that Obama is a radical Muslim. Peterman’s friends, in other words, are lying to him, but he doesn’t realize it.

“I’ll admit that I probably don’t follow all of the election news like maybe I should,” Peterman said. “I haven’t read his books or studied up more than a little bit. But it’s hard to ignore what you hear when everybody you know is saying it. These are good people, smart people, so can they really all be wrong?”

Leroy Pollard, who lives in Peterman’s neighborhood, added, “I understand [Obama’s] from Africa, and that the first thing he’s going to do if he gets into office is bring his family over here, illegally. He’s got that racist [pastor] who practically raised him, and then there’s the Muslim thing. He’s just not presidential material, if you ask me.”

I have no idea what anyone can do about this.

A friend of mine emailed me recently, mentioning that he and I have a mutual acquaintance who believes all of the same nonsense about Obama (and then some). When he tried to set our friend straight, it was pointless. Any and all evidence was simply rejected out of hand.

He asked what to do. I’m at a bit of a loss. Someone who hears a lie, is given evidence that proves it’s a lie, but chooses to believe the lie anyway is being willfully ignorant.

But what happens when voters in a swing state reject the better candidate precisely on the basis of those lies? In the Post piece, Peterman has seen the ad with Obama talking about the country he loves, explaining where he was born and how he was raised. In the ad, Obama is actually wearing a flag pin. And yet, Peterman isn’t sure. He wants to do the right thing, but doesn’t know what to think. He hasn’t “studied up,” and there’s no way to know if he will or not before November.

Obama created a “Fight the Smears” website, but for the willfully ignorant, it’s just another outlet with inconvenient facts to be ignored.

Maybe it really will come down to going to each of these folks’ homes individually.

For the past month, two students from the University of Findlay have spent their Tuesday nights walking from door to door in the city to tell voters about Obama. Erik Cramer and Sarah Everly target Democrats and swing voters exclusively, but they’ve still experienced mixed results. Sometimes, at a front door, they mention their purpose only to have a dozen rumors thrown back at them and the door slammed. “People tell us that we’re in the wrong town,” Everly said.

Soon, on a Tuesday night, they’ll walk down College Street — past the American flags, past the LeMasters, past the Pollards — and knock on Jim Peterman’s front door. They will ask for two minutes of his time, and Peterman will give it to them. He will listen to their story, weighing facts against fiction. For a few minutes, he might even believe them.

Then he’ll close his door and go inside, back to his life. Back to his grocery store, back to his son’s auto shop, back to the gossip on College Street. Back to the rumors again.

To be sure, it sounds discouraging. The good news is, it’s certainly possible that Findlay, Ohio, is not a typical competitive town in a battleground state — but rather a very conservative community where Obama would struggle if he were blond with blue eyes. Though the article didn’t mention it, in 2000, Bush enjoyed 69% support in Findlay, and in 2004, that number went up to 71%.

Is Findlay common or unusual? Here’s hoping it’s the latter.

Years ago my father and I were at the Museum of Natural History in NYC looking at the fossil remains of T Rex when he turned to me and said something to the effect of, “I find the bible easier to believe.” My father is a successful, well-educated man. Sometimes people just can’t believe their lying eyes because they just don’t want to. I suspect Mr. Peterson wants to believe the rumors about Obama, for whatever reason.

  • If you figure out how to combat this, please let us know. Too many of the people I consider bright, well-educated, and sensible buy in to all these rumors because “someone said”….which may put paid to the concept of their being bright, well-educated, and sensible. Recently I was buttonholed by an elderly man who told me that he didn’t mind Obama, but couldn’t vote for him because his wife hates America so much.
    I try to be just as skeptical about rumors and vicious things said about the other candidates rather than taking them at face value, but it’s difficult to sort fact from fiction. The concept that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth seems to rule. It’s complicated by the fact that things I once would have considered totally unbelievable about elected representatives (and, well, people) all too often turn out to be true.
    It makes me dizzy. And angry. And sad.

  • For quite unpolitical reasons, yesterday I was checking on radio stations in several major US cities. Lists of stations usually noted the kind of programming they carry. I was astounded by the overwhelming number of “talk” (presumably ‘conservative’) or “religious” (presumably fundamentalist) stations there are. In some cities it evidently is hard to find music on the radio, let alone responsible news programming.

    This might help answer the question why Mr. Peterman is so conflicted and why so many of his neighbors and friends are misinformed idiots. Misinformed idiocy has become our national discourse. Cable and tv broadcast “news” programs would seem to be little different.

  • “Medicating the dead” (as Thomas Paine described arguing with people who refuse to reason) is usually fruitless.

    This problem isn’t going away anytime soon, we’ll need to work extra hard to overcome those idiots with voters who actually care whether information is true or not.

  • If Findlay Ohio voted for Bush by such a high margin in 2004, then Findlay Ohio is stupid.

  • EARTH TO MR. PETERMAN!!!!! “These are good people, smart people, so can they really all be wrong?” This is your wake-up call — YES — Good, smart people can really all be wrong — just look at the last two elections — YESSSS — your friends are good, smart and yet, still ignorant. They are very dramatic story tellers — they are looking for something to talk about!
    Why not give them something REAL to talk about. Mr. Peterman, here is my challenge to you — buy 12 copies of Barack Obama’s book — and start a BOOK CLUB for your ignorant friends — and read Audacity of Hope for your first book. here’s a link for very inexpensive copies:
    http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=barack+obama&sts=t&x=37&y=12
    If your ignorant friends elect another Republican, I don’t want to hear one word of complaint out of you.

  • I think all that can be done is for Obama’s campaign to make the facts as readily available as possible to sincere but uninformed voters like Peterman and hope to peel off a few percentage points in towns like Findlay. It won’t be enough to win a majority but maybe it will cushion the damage a little bit. The unfortunate fact is that politics, like religion, is an area in which a substantial percentage of people (on both sides, it must be admitted) tend to base their beliefs on self-serving faith rather than on evidence, and as you’ve noted, it’s simply not possible to dissuade those types by appealing to reason. I think Obama’s success thus far gives us some reason to be optimistic that those whose heads are irretrievably buried in the sand of Internet rumors don’t constitute an overly large proportion of the electorate, and let’s face it, most of those people would probably vote for McCain in any event. The primaries also demonstrated that people get to like Obama a lot more when they see him in person. I’m sure he’ll make a point of spending a lot of time in swing states like Ohio in the next few months.

  • These are good people, smart people, so can they really all be wrong?

    No, Mr. Peterman, they are not good, smart people. They are ignorant, lazy, and not patriotic enough to pay attention. They may think they’re good because they put food on the table every night. They may be, and probably are, good attentive citizens of their community and their workplace, and perhaps their churches. But sir, the facts are out there, and on most of the very basic issues, there is no excuse to make so little effort to understand them. No, Mr. Peterman, they are not good, smar people. And nor are you.

  • My mother, a very liberal lady in the bluest of blue counties in a very blue state, believes that Obama is secretly a Muslim. At the same time, she doesn’t like his Christian preacher. When I point out the contradiction, she insists that Rev. Wright is secretly a Muslim as well. She’ll be voting for Obama in November, because she has several Muslim friends and according to her, there’s nothing wrong with being a Muslim. It’s just utterly ridiculous and very depressing.

  • Instead of saying that “Mr. Peterson wants to believe the rumors,” I would say that he is unlikely to believe something with conviction unless he has the wherewithall to counteract the others’ insistence that the rumors are true. He needs to be able to tell these people that he thinks that they are al wrong, something he admits he is uncomfortable doing.

    My prescription would be to get Hon. Sen. McCain(and other GOP leaders and spokespeople) to deny the rumors, preferably in a face to face meeting on national TV. I would have thought that one of these famous dynamic duo town hall meetings would be a good venue, but perhaps some other means would work as well

  • If you want even stranger examples of Democratic-leaning “willfully ignorant” folks, you only need visit the comments section of such formerly cordial places as Talk Left. PUMA rules there, and visitors who advocate for a return to party unity are labeled “Obamabots” or banned.

    People believe what they want to believe, I think. We live in an age where you can learn a great deal in a short time in front of a laptop. Not all of it is reliable, but anyone with a sense of curiosity can become very well informed. That sense of curiosity is what is missing. The folks I’ve seen in some places, like No Quarter, have made up their minds, and facts won’t be allowed to get in the way.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a waste of time to even engage these folks.

  • To pose a potential analogy, I’d say that those folks got their news about Obama the same way they got their religion and got their lessons on guns. It ain’t bitter, it is just the way it is, by God, and you can’t pry that sense of identity out of there. It is rural, stubborn, backlash, elitism.

  • I think it’s more BS than we realize. I think people decide who they are going to vote for early on, and then rationalize it by making up different reasons. I think we saw this in 2004. People decided they were going to vote for Bush. Then they needed a reason for this. We got flip flop, french looking, weak, etc.

  • What you need to understand is that there is something around 17% of the population (by my estimate) who are really off the information grid. They live in a self-reinforcing bubble that centers around evangelical churches, prayer groups, which also now includes email lists where the vicious right-wing rumors about national and local politics circulate widely.

    They’re convinced that network news and newspapers are completely liberal, and only receive their news from talk radio or from Fox, which they consider to be fair and balanced.

    Maybe Republican gas prices will make these people pay attention, but the Reoublicans are blaming gas prices on elite liberal environmentalists, a group that they have already demonized in their circles.

    There’s a real disconnect when their entire social group shares a belief set that is false, but the only way that you might really make inroads into this group is through their weekly prayer meetings.

  • I have no idea what anyone can do about this.

    Concentrate on voters who have a brain stem?

  • Well, you can always do what I did: move.

    Yes, those people really are like that, and no, you can’t change their minds. Happily, the Post published a less anecdotal article yesterday that indicates those who hold values like the ones portrayed in this story may be less and less important. Called “A New Political Geography,” it says the key votes are moving to new mini-metro centers like Northern Virginia. Once the home of the John Birch Society, the American Nazi Party and a dozen other wack groups, it’s now the most liberal part of Virginia, while “rust belt” areas like Ohio and West Virginia that were largely Democratic are losing population and going Republican. Very reassuring, if depressing. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/28/AR2008062802124.html

    The other sad thing is that I asked a key Obama operative about this very problem a year ago, and he said the campaign wasn’t concerned, Obama’s books were enough to answer any questions about race and religious issues; a touching bit of naivete they’re now racing to correct. On the other hand, the Republicans tried to paint Edwards as a possibly-gay pretty boy and Hillary as a pushy feminist harridan, so any Democratic candidate is likely to be run through the smear machine.

  • There are those in this world who will not accept change at any cost. Loss of FREEDOM and protection of the USConstitution or threat of hunger or poverty will not change some folks. The fear of the unknown paralyzes them. The idea is to provide the information , try to educate and then wash the dust off your feet as you leave town.

  • But it’s hard to ignore what you hear when everybody you know is saying it. These are good people, smart people,

    “Smart” is probably a word best not used to describe your average American bozo. Mencken was right way back in 1924 when he said “Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people,” and this story demonstrates that fact.

  • Here’s my suggestion for how to combat this.

    Just start sending out more emails with equally scurrilous rumors about Americans these people know and trust. Use the same formats, the same structures, the same insane lies .. but attach them to known quantities.

    Harry Truman refused to say the pledge of allegiance (photo of him with hands at side). Ronald Reagan was actually a Muslim (photo of him greeting Saudi leader). Donald Rumsfeld was an agent of Saddam Hussein (photo attached to show handshake).

    Even the idiots who read the Weekly World News get clued into the fact that “______ Meets with Space Aliens!” is a fraud when the same photo is used over and over again with different politicians.

    Rather than fight back against these smears, add even more to the mix to drown them out in a sea of noise. Flood the zone.

  • Truth has its own ring to it. If you’re not suspicious when someone tells you a presidential candidate is a gay, racist, African Muslim who wants to destroy America then you’d have difficulty figuring how much saliva to drool. Sometimes people just don’t want to know and aren’t motivated to find the truth. “Hearsay is just fine with me”. But these people have always been here as part of the “…You can full some of the people all of the time…”, group but they will not stand in the way of Obama’s landslide victory. McCain is not an answer…he’s just a choice.

  • I have a friend I’ve knows for years that lives in FLA (maybe that’s the problem). At any rate, he comes from a solid democratic background, his stepmother actually ran Hillary’s campaign in the city I live in now.

    We had a discussion several weeks ago and haven’t spoken since then. He recited every single rumor about Obama he had heard and simply refused to even consider anything to the contrary. I was flabbergasted and shocked. I thought to myself that this guy is definately an educated guy, and I used to think he was rational. So why this almost involuntary reaction to Obama? He even said he’s voting for McCain.

    Then it dawned on me. It’s because Obama is black and has a funny name. That’s it, nothing more. It’s not like he won’t vote for Obama on policy issues, he’s a democrat. But he’s going to vote Republican.

    Its a sad, sad commentary on the state of our country when it comes to prejudice.

  • Of course the folks in Findlay are ignorant. In 2004, with Bush a known quantity, they increased their support to 71%.

    After last week with his support for FISA, the death penalty and guns my enthusiasm for Obama is reduced by half. I’ll vote for Obama; or against McCain. But that’s all I have to offer for a candidate who could be much more progressive and show us a new politics and be an agent of change but has chosen to be the traditional politician he was criticizing a few weeks ago.

    Oh yeah. I see he no longer dislikes NAFTA nearly as badly as he did during the Ohio primary.

  • Unity through purge. Call them all stupid, then ban them, don’t go to websites that aren’t saying what you believe, move away. Yes, unity through purge.

    What can you do? Well, start by saying that a Vietnam Vet and POW has inadequate military service. Definitely recommend a self-serving book written by the candidate himself — that will come across as truth instead of hyperbole.

    Why do people believe this stuff? Because formerly admired Republican senators are revealed as gay every day it seems. Because secret deals with foreign countries are revealed all the time (e.g., Iran Contra). Because just enough conspiracy theories wind up being true to cause reasonable doubt. But yes, people are all stupid for listening to such stuff.

    Obama comes across as Muslim in the same way that Farrakhan is Muslim and most of the Northern Africa continent is Muslim. Obama may have been born in Hawaii, but he did have a Kenyan father and he did live in Indonesia. That needs to be explained because people will rightly consider those foreign countries (not Hawaii). So this isn’t all about lies. There is enough truth to be confusing. Many people would have considered Obama unelectable because of these liabilities, but we nominated him anyway, so we must live with this problem and spend extra time explaining, something Obama doesn’t seem to do — focusing instead on emphasizing his Christianity (which unfortunately is Wright’s version, not middle America’s).

    Why don’t people believe Obama when he denies the rumors. Well, that speaks to the sense of being deceived. You all felt betrayed by FISA, well some of us have felt betrayed by other stuff Obama has done. If he cannot project his fundamental honesty, it won’t matter what he tries to tell the truth about. He blew that way back when he tried to tell everyone that he didn’t know what Wright was preaching after 20 years in a pew and said he never had dinner with Rezko. He blew it when he called Bill Clinton a racist (via surrogates) when he has been perhaps our least bigoted president. People aren’t stupid. They don’t like being lied to by a candidate. Now Obama has to try and undo that. I don’t think it can be done and we are unfortunately stuck with him. I won’t bother saying I told you so.

  • LOL. You really expect these people who live in the whitest of white towns in rural Ohio to change their opinion about a black male? Surely, you jest. Why does Carpetbagger refuse just to, pardon the expression, call a spade a spade and point out stubborn bigotry and idiocy where it most definitely exists. “Not presidential material” my ass. LOL. These people barely think black folks are janitorial material.

    You know, not long ago, I wrote a short essay called, “White People, Wake the F*ck Up.” And recently I apologized for even posting it as it was a bit of rant but when I read stuff like this it makes me want to put it on a t-shirt.

    No, a billboard.

  • If simply put clear explanations about facts won’t work, and Obama thinks he can run a successful campaign with nuanced positions on controversial issues-he’s going to get his butt kicked.

  • Here in the deep South, some Evangelicals believe that Obama is the brown person who will unleash all the evil that they fear is coming. The AntiChrist, as they think of it. I think smiley (Comment #1) explains it well. Around here, some people just are not ready to believe a brown person could become president without the end times happening as a result. Fortunately, I think that the polls show most people are not of the same mind. These others probably explain the reason why McCain is doing as well as he is.

  • I find it completely reasonable to prefer to believe one’s friends over a politician.
    To state that his friends are outright lying to him is ridiculous.
    You are at once acknowledging that he doesn’t know better, but that clearly his friends do (otherwise their statements wouldn’t be lies).
    Perhaps his friends are just as misinformed has he.
    Either way, politicians lie. A lot.
    7+ years of Bush should remind people of that.

  • I say this as an Obama supporter:

    What’s with the “woe is me!” attitude here. Everyone knew this was going to be a problem with an Obama candidacy. It’s a given that a certain segment of the population wouldn’t support him. If you thought this was going to be such a big problem, you should have voted for Edwards.

  • To add, it’s not that I believe the lies over Obama’s statements. The facts are the facts. There rest is unfounded rumor.
    But for Steve to accuse the guy’s friends of lying to him is beyond the pale.

    And yes, you’ll find these people everywhere.
    Findlay isn’t far from where I went to college, in Bowling Green (there’s a KKK headquarters nearby).
    It’s also close to Toledo, which is economically depressed.

  • That’s a clever idea, TR, but perhaps a tad sophisticated for the target audience. If they can’t comprehend a simple declarative sentence, how will they understand satire, irony, and sarcasm?

    I suggest a more direct approach: make the truth easier to believe. Wrap it up in a digestible form: rumor, religion, Bazooka gum wrappers, etc. Such people are not impermeable to information — it’s just that some forms are getting through more easily than others.

  • CB: I have no idea what anyone can do about this.

    We feel the pain.

    I can’t understand how such a materially successful nation can be populated by such a load of dimwits. Good souls at heart perhaps, but thick as two planks when it comes to trusting their own senses and feelings. It cannot all be blamed on the right-wing media conspiracy.

    The first time I read a speech of Obama’s, way back nearly two years ago, with only a single photo to put a face to the message, I was deeply impressed. I even commented here at some length to that effect. A few months later I saw a video, linked here, near the time when there was talk of his joining the presidential race. I remember spontaneously writing that “this man has what it takes”. I even hesitated about letting such a committing feeling get posted with the comment. But I did, and I still hold by it.

    The guy shines, way beyond most prospective candidates this cycle and many cycles back. He’s in a league with the greats, to my perception.

    What perplexes me totally is how anyone who just gives ten minutes to observe the man in action cannot be impressed and feel inspired and grateful. To me it’s like the Jim Petermans of this world have lost the power of their our perception and have surrendered every ounce of trust in their own better judgement.

    Of course, I start off with a liberal bias in my sympathies and expectations, but still I make judgements every day about people I meet on the basis of my impressions and perceptions. How can the mass of people in a country like America find themselves so bereft of confidence in their own judgement?

  • Years ago, I sold appliances & electronics for a chain of stores that has since gone the way of Elvis. During a training session, I was taught that there are, essentially, 4 different personality types of customers, ranging from the emotionally needy who need to be told what to buy, educated comsumers who will possibly know mroe than you and definitely think they do, Alpha types who want the best, and middle of the roads who want a good product at a good value. And a good sales person will be able to identify those types of customers and adjust his or her pitch to accomodate their personality types…or hand them off to a sales person who can (you making the sale isn’t nearly as important as the store making the sale).

    How much of that was true or not, I can’t say. I know I wasn’t one of the best sales people, though I had my share of loyal customers who’d come back looking for me. Mainly because I wasn’t high-pressure. I nest identified with good product at good value and didn’t feel comofrtable trying to make someone buy more than they could afford or wanted.

    But I think about that concept of adjusting your message to accomodate your customer at that moment when it comes to hearing all the bullshit about Obama. There really are so many negative preconceptions about the man, his history, his agenda, etc., that it really will take a person-to-person approach to do any sort of good convincing some of the truly ignorant that he’s not the devil incarnate.

    Really, despite the demonization that the GOP and MSM has performed on the Democratic Party over the past couple o’ decades, you’d think it’s be enough for a Democrat to say “Look! We want to win in 2008. We NEED to win in 2008! If we can’t win now, we’re never gonna win! Do you really think NOW, when the stakes are so high, we’d try to elect a black, secretly gay, secretly Muslim anti-American-marrying radical Christian? Do you really think WE’D think that’s a good idea? Or maybe…just maybe…he’s an incredibly qualified candidate and you’re being fed a load of horseshit by the enema-bag-full?”

    IMHO, one of the most important things Democrats need to be nowadays is obstinate, if not downright stubborn. Just call peple bullshitters and liars when they spread bullshit lies about Obama or any other Dem running for office. Show fire in the belly. Don’t back down. You can be thoughtful and refute the bullshit, you can be angry and just point and scream “bullshit” but the important thing is to get in people’s heads that the bullshit they’re hearing about Obama IS bullshit. And believe it with enough conviction and stoicism that people will have to at least believe that you believe it, and therefore it just might be worth believing, which it is, because you’re right.

  • “good people, smart people” …

    Seems to me good smart people don’t get their facts wrong.

    I find people who spread or believe these false stories about Obama fall into four categories –

    1) Ignorant – honestly uninformed
    2) Willfully ignorant – uninformed and chooses to ignore facts when presented
    3) Dishonest – spreading a false story to further an agenda (in this case not voting for Obama)
    4) a combination 1, 2, and 3

    Where does a lot of this come from? I would speculate that in many cases people don’t think for themselves. They vote based on whatever their parents (or siblings or ministers, or other authorities in their lives) say to do.

    I find the only way to combat falsehoods, is to counter with facts. And remind people to check those facts independantly.

    The key is to get people to learn to think for themselves, and make decisions based on their understanding of fact, not rumor, falsehood or otherwise.

  • I know my wife (still a Hillary supporter) won’t be voting for Obama. She told me she would never trust a black man for president ever since she was raped by one…

  • Hancock County – of which Findlay is the seat and largest city – is not representative of Ohio. Two years ago, Ted Strickland won 73 (?) of Ohio’s 88 counties in the course of defeating Ken Blackwell by 24% in the gunernatorial election. Hancock County was one of the fifteen counties that went for Blackwell, and it did so by a 12% margin. In general, northwestern Ohio is a staunchly Republican part of the state.

  • That’s a clever idea, TR, but perhaps a tad sophisticated for the target audience. If they can’t comprehend a simple declarative sentence, how will they understand satire, irony, and sarcasm?

    I’m not saying we should be sarcastioc. Far from it. flood the zone with stuff that looks just like this, so it’s not just Obama getting called a gay Islamomexican fascist Marxist terrorist, but everyone. Change it from “the internet says this about him” to “the internet says this about everyone.”

    Hell, I think we should create fake emails about these individual voters in Findlay — targeting them by name — and send them to all their neighbors.

  • I find all of this soul searching earnest discussion of how to help these good people of Findley, OH, see the truth of candidate Obama amusing. Choosing to believe unsubstantiated facts over clearly supported truth is just their way of explaining why they won’t be voting for a multi-racial candidate without actually admitting their primary reason. The simple truth is candidate Obama is a dark skinned human being. In the minds of the “good people of Findley” this is reason enough not to elect him to our nations highest office. Mr. Obama may yet win the election despite people like the “good citizens of Findley, OH. The Republican party’s eight years of leadership and stewardship of our country has provided a clear understanding of their class priorities and lack of of concern for the average American. A successful run for the presidency by Mr. Obama should not be taken as proof that America has finally overcome it skin color paranoia. I fear our nation has many years to go before Dr.Martin Luther King Jr.’s dream of human equality becomes reality.

  • There is reason enough to be concerned about all this politically. But on a human level, we need to be concerned about these people in rural America.

    We can read about their plight in the newspapers and look at news accounts on TV. But to see these rural counties and towns first hand as they continue to decline is something we should consider and be concerned about.

    My parents live in S. IL which is largely rural and on the poor side of the ledger. Unemployment continues to be higher than the national average. Stop at a gas station/convenience store and look around. You’ll see a lot of obese women. The shirtless guys with them are probably on the skinny side and shirtless, reveal a wealth of tattoos which possibly speak to their past or current troubles or a future with the law (read meth). Much of the housing in the towns is beginning to look kind of run down.
    Depressing is the key word to describe it all. I wonder if it were not for all the older folks spending their Social Security checks and the Medicare supporting the local medical establishments, what, other than agriculture would be holding up any foundation for the local economy.

    What can Obama do to counter the lies? Show these folks that he really does think and care about them. His effort to campaign in the red states should reveal something more to them than a reach for their votes.

  • “Group think” is pervasive in all aspects of human life. We are social animals and generally find it difficult to strike out on our own. If Mr. Peterman hears lies about Obama from people that he otherwise knows and trusts, why shouldn’t he believe them? Presented with evidence to the contrary, by people that he doesn’t know and trust, why should he beleive it? Its human nature.

  • Re: Post 41

    Dark skin has little if anything to do with it. Hancock County went strongly for a black man over an ordained white minister in the last gubernatorial election. It’s just a very conservative part of the state.

  • What do you expect? Everywhere you turn, you hear Rush, Hannity, BillO and the rest beating the anti-Obama drumbeat.

    The purveyors of this swill call it “entertainment” when forced to, but the hoi polloi call it news. And they believe it because it speaks to their fears.

  • lou,

    I’m a Carbondale girl myself. My dad taught at SIU and is still there, along with some of my sibs. You are 100% correct about the culture of So Ill. The point at which Appalachia and the Ozarks is Little Egypt. Unfortunately.

    And the amount of ignorance regarding Obama there is astounding.

  • Ric,

    Your work wife is a racist. I’m sorry she went through something as horrific as rape, but if she attributes the act to her attacker’s race, she is guilty of racism. Would she stop voting for white men if her attacker had been white? Doubtful.

  • I blame a lot of this on Fox News because of the confusion campaign the wage under the “We Report, You Decide” banner. People are supposed to decide what to do in light of the facts, but someone needs to tell them the facts themselves — not leave them to decide for themselves about the facts.

    Studies have shown that people these days are incapable of evaluating the credibility and accuracy of information streams. These are the results.

  • I was in a local yahoo group, and in it a seething winger proclaimed the same about Obama. I said to him (and group) “Well, I see you’re a religious man, Ray. You may recall Jesus was crucified for merely offering a different way.” That shut it down.

    You can counter it with what they know, which is through framework of hellfire and brimstone Christianity. Bring it down to that. Help them understand via the Bible. If they say he’s too brown, you ask can they really prove Jesus wasn’t? If they ask about Rev. Wright, ask them how many pastors of their very own church have either been fired or let go?

    And finally when they bring up the Muslim slur ask them when they were “saved”. Most likely they will tell you it was in their teens. Tell them though Obama was taken as a child to Indonesia and though he may have been exposed to Islamic teachings, he was still a child and at mercy of his mother and her ideals. When he reached the age of reason, he chose Christianity.

    You have to get through to their hearts AND their guilt. Bill Clinton was masterful at this, though I never thought he was sincere.

  • shorter Mary:

    I hate that n****r Obama.

    I hate all his n***r-lovin supporters who don’t know or won’t admit just how awesome and inspiring Queen Hillary is, and the sort of broad bipartisan support she generates amongst her fans.

    I take every opportunity to spread the very lies about that n***r Muslim Obama that people believe and his campaign is trying to disprove.

    I certainly have no intention of voting for that filthy n***r Obama.

    And I can’t wait for his n**** ass to lose in november. THAT’LL teach you all to not vote for Queen Hillary.

    But that does NOT mean I’m part of the public perception problem, and if you think I am…well, then you’re just mean!

    _________________

    GOOD NIGHT EVERYBODY! TIP YOUR WAIT STAFF!

  • Well, speaking strategically, perhaps the most successful counter would be to spread some rumors about McCain. Our rumors could actually be true, however. Such as his treatment of his wife, special treatment as the son and grandson of an admiral, multiple planes crashed. Lobbyists, possible affairs. And perhaps less fairly, but still accurately, a person who when he went to war, “lost” — was captured. Do we want someone who’s a brave loser?

  • “He believes a smart vote is an American’s greatest responsibility.”

    “I’ll admit that I probably don’t follow all of the election news like maybe I should,” Peterman said. “I haven’t read his books or studied up more than a little bit.”

    Seriously ?? This guy was either pulled into something he didn’t want to be or he actually thinks listening to neighborhood gossip, which I imagine isn’t Obama only gossip, is being a smart voter then he is as delusional as the gossip surely partakes in.

    This guy can’t honestly believe there is a viable Muslim candidate for president, that doesn’t take books or studying, it take a little common sense. I suspect the people that believe this are just looking for a reason not to vote for him because telling people they don’t want a black guy would make them seem foolish, so they say “I heard……” and repeat whatever provocative non-sense they heard at the community water fountain. These are the same people that think McCain is a maverick. Like my ex used to say, ‘you only hear what you want to hear’.

  • This is what I told my Mother, who is 74 and lives in Kentucky, when she began parroting talking points from network news: If people in this country do not educate themselves about Obama and support him, then our country is full of a bunch of racist crackers, and we deserve a third Bush term with McCain at the wheel. Four more years of soldiers dying, gas rising to 8 or 10 bucks a gallon, every country hating us and refusing to offer us aid of any sort or be our allies, a war with Iran coupled with a draft, food prices soaring. Let these people who are afraid of change should have to deal with the horrible lack of change McCain offers. After February, my television won’t be able to receive the new DTV anyway, so I won’t have to see McCain’s grimacing face or his wife with her ice chip eyes. And these last nearly 8 years have taught me how to survive on very little, so I suspect me and mine will weather any storms to come.

    I think it’s time more folks in this country start asking themselves if they think *they* can survive a McCain Presidency.

  • Another thought, reinforced by the comments here: The Obama staffer I mentioned in 17 is African American, but from an upscale family and a Harvard graduate. It’s likely he and his friends on the Obama campaign never met anyone like the Findlay people, whom I affectionately call “family.” (I don’t go home very often.)

    This brings up the very American problem of classism, which I’ve argued several times on another site is worse than racism or sexism, as so much attention has been given to the other two in the last thirty years while many people don’t want to admit classism exists. As income disparities grow, so does classism. It’s estimated that income disparity is now at its worst point in America of any time since the 20s, and so is classism. While Obama isn’t from an upperclass background, a Harvard education can do wonders. It’s quite possible the Obama campaign will have the same problem with this issue as the Gore and Kerry campaigns. GB, of course, who tries to talk like a barfly cowboy, is from one of the wealthiest families in the country, a fortune founded, ironically, in central Ohio.

  • #38 Ric

    I am very sorry for your wife’s experience. That said, she cannot assume that every black man is out to rape her physically or metaphorically- Morgan Freeman, Danny Glover? Sydey Poitier? Bill Cosby? all rapists? I think not. She’s letting the superficial color issue cloud her judgement, and ( playing armchair shrink here) letting that one factor overshadow her other reasons for not supporting him, it’s a “safe” answer for her that staves off any credibility defense.
    That’s like saying I won’t fly with muslims on a plane because 19 of them flew into two buildings across the street from me on 9-11-01. It’s ridiculous.

  • Someone who hears a lie, is given evidence that proves it’s a lie, but chooses to believe the lie anyway is being willfully ignorant.

    Sounds a lot like fundamentalist religion. I wonder if there’s a correlation. Hmm. Live all your life with a willful abandonment of logic and rationality in a huge portion of your life, orient yourself to trust the likes of ol’ “Fair & Balanced,” then muse over your dilemma. Please, just give me a benevolent dictator. This whole democracy thing is bound to fail (witness the last 7 years) as long as yahoos like this can vote.

  • That is the downside of democracy… an idiot’s vote counts just as much as that of someone who spends time actually studying the issues.

    At one point in the article, though, Peterman says “Well, maybe I just won’t vote.” There’s a hope — he and his friends will be so discouraged by one side and confused by the other they’ll just stay home.

  • The surge is working! The surge is working! The surge is working…

    “* In mid-July, Barack Obama will be making an overseas trip to Europe and the Middle East. Though, FOR SECURITY REASONS, there’s been no announcement about visiting Iraq, one assumes it will be on the itinerary.”

    May be time to move to another country…

  • So this isn’t all about lies. There is enough truth to be confusing. — Mary, @26

    And, obfuscating and “professorial” as ever, she even gives a supreme example of her own (two paragraphs earlier) of how to take a kernel of truth and twist it into a pretzel of a “confusing” lie:

    What can you do? Well, start by saying that a Vietnam Vet and POW has inadequate military service.

    Is that what Wes Clark said? No, it’s not. But, for Mary, it’ll do. For Mary, anything — true or not — will do, as long as some elements of it sound vaguely familiar. As they say in Poland: “when you want to hit a dog, you can always find a stick”.

  • You start off with the following sentence…”Y’know, I’ve voted Republican all my life, but in the past eight years…”

  • Here is part of the problem. You guys define “incontrovertible, substantiated truth” as whatever you believe. You also engage in some twisted distortions of logic and supreme hair-splitting in order to deny things — such as that Wes Clark put his foot in his mouth bigtime yesterday (see Libra above).

    By the time you get done with all that (e.g., Obama didn’t actually plagiarism because he was given permission to use someone else’s speech without attribution and besides all speechwriters borrow from others), you may feel comfortable in your faith in your candidate, but your circumlocutions are not convincing to anyone else.

    No one is going to look at what Wes Clark actually said, what I said he said, and Libra’s complaint about what I posted, and see any difference worth mentioning at all. THAT is part of your problem.

    The average person doesn’t care whether said he would only take federal funding if McCain agreed to eschew the 527s or whether he said he would definitely take federal funding and is now going back on his promise. These distinctions matter only to wonks.

    Wes Clark disparaged McCain’s military service. That is what this episode registers as in the public mind. The newspapers aren’t distorting it. The bottom line is that Wes Clark was disrespectful and it doesn’t matter what hair you split or what point Clark was actually trying to make (or thought he made, or even wished he’d made). What matters is what the public hears.

    If you imagine that by shouting me down when I try to tell you how this plays to others, you will somehow make things all right for Obama, you are living in fantasyland. I believe the anger my comments engender here arises because I make you uncomfortable in your faith in Obama. The job of a politician is to understand how statements and actions will affect voters. Obama is not doing a good job of anticipating that. This maneuver by Wes Clark was planned and it was a major misstep. Hillary Clinton would have been immune to these military arguments because she isn’t expected to serve. Obama is not, and predictably, McCain’s people called his response cowardly. That is their point about Obama when they emphasize McCain’s service. Obama has none and that is a vulnerability. You don’t address it by attack McCain’s service because people react to that as if Obama were attacking all of our vets. Anyone with half a brain could have predicted this brouhaha. Why didn’t Obama? I think he has been drinking his own kool-aid and thinks he is invulnerable to the rules other politicians play by. Some people would call that arrogance.

  • So how soon can we expect the same story with the opposite perspective, A post reporter goes to a predominately black area and questions the residents about their thoughts on John McCain and more importantly, they are actually printed in the paper.

  • I live in a Democratic neighborhood in a blue state, and most of the people I talk to know this stuff is nonsense. However, I get my hair cut every 2 weeks, and listening to my hairdresser–a Korean immigrant–helps me understand how Bush got sort-of elected twice. According to her, Iran was funding the Clinton campaign, and the US is in terrible trouble because of our huge burden of people on welfare. She was genuinely shocked when I informed her that welfare was severely limited back in the 1990’s. She’s made other, similar statements about Obama. I’m sure she watches Fox News and/or listens to talk radio. In my dark moments I really fear that people like her in the swing states will help McCain get elected.

  • Conservative to Looney Left:

    I have accidentally stumbled on your site, and I have to say that I have never seen this many rabid intolerants complain about the unfairness of others. Loosen up and get a life! It is perfectly OK to question Obama’s judgement and values on the basis of his long-time and close associations with shady characters. Contrary to your assertions, except for isolated and inconsequential extremists no conservative of any stature has questioned the Senator’s patriotism.

  • I believe the anger my comments engender here arises because I make you uncomfortable in your faith in Obama.

    Um, or it might have something to do with the fact that PUMAs would rather see McCain president than Obama and have said that they’ll ACTUALLY HELP McCAIN GET ELECTED just so they can say “told you so” on January 20th and feel VINDICATED in their irrational hated of Obama.

    What I find most amusing is how much PUMAs criticize the “faith” of Obama’s supporters, criticize his supporters for liking him too much– meanwhile their adoration of Hillary has made them decide that it would be better if we have McBush in the White House come January.

    I’m a proud liberal and I’ve never voted for a GOPer in my life. I started off the primary as a Hillary supporter and changed my mind by mid-February. However, if Hillary had won the primary I would have happily voted for her– because ANY DAMN DEM WILL DO. The sooner Hillary’s supporters realize this the faster we can all work together to prevent the White House from falling into scary, war-mongering hands.

    If Bush doesn’t get us into war with Iran by January then McCain most certainly will. McCain said it himself, in what should be the most damning political ad EVER– his cute little “bomb bomb bomb Iran” ditty. That should be enough for anyone who considers themselves a Dem or a liberal to get behind the party.

  • Here is part of the problem. You guys define “incontrovertible, substantiated truth” as whatever you believe.

    So says the woman who lived in 1930s Chicago when it was 145% black.

  • Senator Obama is NOT a Dirty Muslim!

    “What you won’t hear from this campaign or this party is the kind of politics that uses religion as a

    wedge,” says Mr. Obama, while denouncing statements of him being a Muslim as a smear. Why is the

    presidential candidate who claims to be religiously inclusive is treating the word “Muslim” as an

    insult? Apparently, it is OK for Mr. Obama to be associated with terrorists like William Ayers or

    racists like Jeremiah Wright, but God forbid somebody would call him a Muslim! No, he won’t stand for

    that kind of smear! We admit that most terrorists are Muslims, but most Muslims are not terrorists and

    the statement on Mr. Obama’s website is insulting to hundreds of millions of people.

    How could a man who discards his family heritage in favor of political expediency be even considered for

    presidency of the United States? Where are all the so-called “Islamic civil rights groups” like CAIR,

    MPAC, ISNA, MAS, etc. who are quick to defend every Islamic terrorist, but are silent when Muslims in

    general are being denigrated? Would Mr. Obama have the same reaction if someone claimed that he was

    raised as a Jew? We sincerely doubt that.

    “In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent

    quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken

    their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this

    country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means

    something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II,

    and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” Barack Obama,

    “The Audacity of Hope”, page 261.

    Well, the political winds did shift in an ugly direction. Is equating “Muslim” with “smear” Obama’s idea

    of “stand[ing] with [Muslims]?

    Muslims Against Sharia demand immediate removal of “SMEAR: Barack Obama is a Muslim” statement from

    the official Barack Obama’s website as well as an apology for giving the word “Muslim” a negative

    connotation.

    http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2008/06/senator-obama-is-not-dirty-muslim.html

    Update:
    Obama changes “SMEAR: Barack Obama is a Muslim” to “SMEAR: Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim” as well as

    removes his pledge not to use religion as a wedge from site’s header.

  • Thanks to TR, Zoe, Biobrain and others who remain steadfast.

    Keep the faith. We’re gonna do this!

    GObama!

  • Zoe — please read this carefully. I am not a PUMA and I have never said I would vote for McCain. In fact, I have said repeatedly that I will never vote for McCain. For people who object to lies told about your candidate, you don’t mind telling them about me.

    Here is my conspiracy theory — I think Obama supporters trashed those cars in Orlando. It makes Hillary die-hards look like terrorists and it makes Obama look like a martyr. You have to ask cui bono? It is only Obama. It does nothing whatsoever to advance Clinton’s cause. Great way to marginalize PUMA, if one wanted to do that.

  • So many have a hidden racism or open racism but not not want to appear racist. They try to justify not liking someone of a different race because of other reasons other than race to keep from saying I am not voting for him because he is black,asian etc. I am the mother of two bi-racial children and I have seen this.Racism is alive just more hidden.I think alot of the spreading these untruths may be what we are seeing.Some people want to believe the untruth because of racism.This has nothing to do with how good a person one thinks they or someone else is.They do not want others to know they are racist.
    Could this be what is going on with some of these people? I think so

  • Honestly, I don’t know why people seem to be so astounded and dumbfounded at how so many people can be so ignorant. Hello… this is the United States. There are a lot of people here who still think Saddam had something to do with 9/11. A sizable portion of the population doesn’t believe in evolution. Peoples’ ignorance of what should be basic common knowledge is not new. There are a lot of important, verifiable facts that a surprising amount of people are clueless about. Throw in the fact that a lot of these folks wouldn’t vote for a black candidate if he were running against a rock… and you get a lot of ridiculous whisper campaigns by a bunch of hicks.

  • Honestly, I don’t know why people seem to be so astounded and dumbfounded at how so many people can be this ignorant. Hello… this is the United States. There are a lot of people here who still think Saddam had something to do with 9/11. A sizable portion of the population doesn’t believe in evolution. Peoples’ ignorance of what should be basic common knowledge is not new. There are a lot of important, verifiable facts that a surprising amount of people are clueless about. Throw in the fact that a lot of these people would NEVER EVER EVER vote for a black candidate… and this is what you get.

  • I live in rural Maine. Early in the campaign as I was in the local general store, I overheard a gent saying to his friends gathered around the coffee urn: “So the Democrats want you to vote for a woman or a terrorist.” It caught my breath but, I knew this would prevail among many in this part of the country

  • Sometimes I want to write off some people as unreachable, etc. and feel depressed about all this, but sometimes I take a breath and want to keep trying. If you are just getting here, read comments # 10 and # 20. I like these ideas a lot. We need to keep pushing back. Speak up in that general store or wherever you are. Be strong.

    It would seem to me quite brilliant if, in the first debate, whatever his first question was, Obama said something like this in the first minute or two. “Thank you for that question, I’ll get to it in a second. I want to take 30 seconds of everyone’s time tonight to lay something to rest. I want to tell all Americans that contrary to the outrageous lies going around, John McCain is NOT a secret Muslim terrorist agent but rather a patriotic American. And I’m sure he will have the character and decency to acknowledge right here and now the same about me. Now, to get to your question…”

  • A reporter comes to town and talks to 25 people, this is .06% of the population, chooses 4 to speak with in one neighborhood, of whom all are of the same WWII era. He begins talking to them concerning “Flag City USA” and digresses into the presidential election and its candidates. My guess is the ones he chose to speak with were very open and willing to talk, not understanding that speaking with reporters is a dangerous game unless you are well-versed and able to follow their logic and rules. What happened, you may ask? According to the interviewees, they don’t remember speaking about specific topics or making certain statements. I believe this reporter from the Washington Post knew his job very well and lead them in the direction he wanted to write about. We all read the stories in the paper as well as television interviews and later people say they were misquoted. This includes the common people as well as stars, professional athletes and politicians. Welcome to the free press.

    Findlay is made up of a great diversity of people. This includes those of different religions, ethnic groups, abilities and social position, etc. I believe few take verbatim everything they read or what they hear from Joe’s friend of a friend. This is a wonderful town and great place to raise children. We are not a “racist” community. I take great pride in my town and country. I believe that unfortunately, “freedom isn’t free” and that those who defend our country and freedom are true heroes in my eyes. Our ability to have freedom of speech, religion, bear arms, become whatever we aspire and challenge ourselves to achieve is what makes our country great.

    Our president must be chosen with great care and forethought by all that vote. He is in a tenable position and will make decisions which affect us all. No matter his decision, someone somewhere will not agree and claim him an incompetent president. I don’t necessarily agree with everything each president has done as they are in a path that no one can understand unless you are standing in his shoes at the time. I haven’t sifted through all of the information out there yet on either candidate however with all of the bashing and mudslinging that goes on even between same party candidates, how you would ever really know the truth of a persons character unless you personally know them is beyond me. You can only take all of the information you gather, assimilate it and come up with your best intellectual and heartfelt feeling and vote or not as you feel inclined.

    People must also realize that even though the internet is readily available, not everyone is connected or even if they are, understand what to do with the tool they have. There are still a number of people who may not even own a computer, whether they are unable to afford it, don’t know how to use it or maybe they are older and just don’t want to learn how to use it doesn’t really matter. That leaves them television, printed material and others opinions to base information on matters that they must make decisions.

    I would like to remind people everywhere that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether it is agreed to by the mainstream or not. Anyone who doesn’t care for the freedoms which the United States offers is welcome to try to find another country to relocate where they feel they would be under a better system. I’m guessing they would be unable to find too many countries out there who would allow them the freedom to express values and ideas against the “government position”.

  • I grew up in Findlay, Ohio, and I am very distraught with how it has been represented in this article. Since I studied journalism in college, I know of at least one professor who would fail this article if it had been handed in to her, not only for its poor grammatical style but also for its poorly researched and slanted content.

    First of all, only interviewing senior citizens on College Street is not at all representative of the population of Findlay for a number of reasons. How can interviewing a handful of senior citizens be representative of a city which has the population of about 40,000 in which the median resident age is 35.1 years? That is not good representation! Why wasn’t there a sampling of opinions from many other neighborhoods, socio-economic levels and age ranges? That would be good journalism! Moreover, the people quoted in the article say they have been taken out of context. Was this reporter too lazy to do his job accurately and well? Was this reporter’s intent to make this city look uneducated and ignorant? Contrary to what he may claim, the answer is more than apparent through the condescending tone of the article.

    Furthermore, as a current resident of a metropolitan area in Illinois, I can testify to the fact that these rumors about Barack Obama are swirling everywhere, not just Findlay, Ohio. To narrow in and criticize a small city in Ohio is not only a deceitful act, but also one that is not conducive to a truly professional reporter. Mr Saslow obviously came with the intent to defame small-town America, not to report unbiased facts.

    I do hope that people are not tempted to think poorly about a little city in the Midwest simply due to the misrepresentation of one unethical reporter who abuses his power of persuasion when he writes emotional and opinionated articles such as this one for a widely-published newspaper. I will go on to say that those who believe what this reporter has said about Findlay are as narrow minded as he is devious.

  • If you truly believe these simpleminded fools to be “bright, well-educated, and sensible” then you are the one who is willfully ignorant. Racism doesn’t have to be skin headed and malevolent to be racism…

  • Obama created a “Fight the Smears” website, but for the willfully ignorant, it’s just another outlet with inconvenient facts to be ignored.

    Come now.
    If McCain had info on his web site saying he had nothing to do with teh Keating five, would your doubts about him be assisted?

    What’s called for is to find respected members of Findlay who ARE open to reason to give some people a reason to doubt the lies. Obama could say post his birth certificate and it wouldn’t prove his age. We need someone these poor slobs TRUST and is, himself, truthful.

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