With ‘American Families Agenda,’ GOP changes direction

As part of their new “re-branding” initiative, House Republicans, to modest fanfare, unveiled their “American Families Agenda” last week. Ordinarily, a “families agenda” driven by the GOP would include a fairly predictable conservative wish list, built around anti-gay measures and legislation to promote state-sponsored religion.

It took Republicans an awfully long while, but it appears they’ve learned that this shtick needed to be retired, and replaced it with issues that people actually care about.

Something big is missing from House Republicans’ 2008 campaign agenda for American families, and that is no accident.

There’s not a single mention in the 47-point program of such red-meat GOP issues as banning abortion, outlawing same-sex marriage, allowing prayer in the public schools, banning flag burning and protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. Instead, the plan focuses on Republican-introduced ideas as allowing private sector workers to take compensatory time instead of premium pay for overtime worked (HR 6025) or permitting full tax deductibility for most medical expenses (HR 636).

In an effort to appeal to moderates in their uphill push to retake the House, Republicans have pushed divisive social issues off center stage and replaced them with a host of pocketbook items they hope will appeal to working women, moderates and even some Democrats.

“This may not be the family agenda you expected from Republicans,” said Rep. Kay Granger , R-Texas, who was in charge of formulating the “American Families Agenda,” the first part of the party’s “Change You Deserve” 2008 platform. “It is a change. In the past, the Republican agenda for families was about social issues. This is more straight-forward, talking to families where they are, not where you want them to be,” Granger added.

Unlike the roll-out of last week’s new Republican slogan, ripped off from an anti-depressant, this is actually a good idea. As much as I would have loved to see the GOP once again try to convince voters that gay abortion doctors are trying to steal your Bible and give your children pornography, Republicans seem to have come to the realization that most coherent people aren’t especially moved by such nonsense. I have no idea what took them so long.

The question, though, is whether any of this is likely to work.

Kevin notes the two key angles to all of this.

The 2008 agenda is remarkable for two reasons. First, the old-school social issues haven’t just been deemphasized, they’ve been completely airbrushed out. It’s like some old May Day photo from the Soviet archives. There’s a very brief mention of a reward fund for people who turn in porn spammers, but that’s it. Unless my code word radar is on the blink, there aren’t even any oblique references to abortion, gays, sex-ed, prayer, vouchers, or any of the other usual crowd favorites. You wouldn’t know there had ever even been a day when the GOP considered that stuff part of a family agenda.

Second, look at the stuff that is in the agenda. Comp time for workers! Business training for underprivileged women! Health care portability! Anti-obesity programs! SCHIP expansion! If you read the fine print most of these items turn out to be pretty weak tea, but that’s not the point. The public face of the party’s family agenda is almost pure Democratic-lite technocracy.

As it happens, I’m skeptical that voters are going to find this compelling, especially in the short term. On Kevin’s first point, the party’s far-right base won’t be at all pleased that its legislative wish list has been abandoned altogether, probably permanently. Centrist voters, meanwhile, already associate Republicans with a conservative social agenda, and rolling out a red-meat-free agenda six months before Election Day probably won’t improve the “brand” in time to make a difference. (If, however, the GOP were to move to the center on social issues for the long haul, the likelihood of a changed landscape would be far greater.)

On the second point, this is most certainly a “Democratic-lite” style approach, but I wouldn’t expect huge results here, either. For one thing, the GOP will be fighting on the Dems’ turf, and on all of these issues, Democratic proposals are better than Republican ones. For another, Republicans can embrace these issues now, but I don’t imagine they’ve figured out how to explain why they’ve been voting against these kinds of proposals for years.

After losing three special elections in three months in three conservative districts, and with the polls looking one-sided against them, Republicans almost certainly came to the conclusion that they had no choice but to change direction. That’s probably the right call, but the GOP should still keep expectations low.

This is more straight-forward, talking to families where they are, not where you want them to be,” Granger added.

Of course, insulting your audience in the most Rumsfeldian sort of way probably doesn’t help your message, either. But I guess you go to the election with the heathen families you’ve got.

And I cant wait for the Dems’ SCHIP ads on this.

  • As a single, retired, female I am sick of having to pay for everyone else’s children. My neighborhood has 3 families of home schoolers with 7 children per family Because I was a mail carrier I know they all receive family assistance and free medical care. The mothers don’t work they stay home and “teach” their kids while my taxes support them. This is Buls**t. They are all born again christians and Republicans..

  • It’ll be interesting to see how the Reps distinguish themselves from Dems through bumper sticker slogans.

  • I heard some guy on NPR this morning (I didn’t catch who it was, but it was clearly a Republican) saying that Obama was running on Republican ideas. It was an absurd assertion, only reinforced by this post. Anybody out there catch who that was?

    For the change you deserve, vote for the NEW Republican Party….Or just vote Dem.

  • The wingnuts like Dobson will probably freak out and consider this a betrayal of their “principles.”

    How dare you remove the critical issue of gay marriage, woof woof blah blah woof woof!!!

    If Dobson and other scumbags in religious cloth want to divorce themselves from the Repubs and form their own stupid political party, it works out well for the Dems as the Repubs find their “base” of morons shrink.

    The Repubs painted themselves into a hard right corner and they can’t get out without breaking their ranks and/or looking stupid. Great job, Turdblossom.

  • Katy–

    It’s part of our social contract that we all pay taxes for things we use and don’t use. Part of our taxes goes to building and maintaining roads, but if someone doesn’t have a car does it make sense for them to be resentful that part of their taxes go towards maintaining roads? I’m far more upset about my tax dollars that go towards killing people in Iraq than if they go towards providing health care for children.

  • But, but…. The Republicans are the Party of Ideas!

    “Democratic Lite” is a great put-down. But so it goes with the Republican Party. They battle every reform nearly to the death, then when the times have all but passed them by they jump back in to claim that the reforms were their good ideas.

    The comp-time instead of overtime idea is a double-edged sword. Employers will love it – overtime during the busy season at regular-time rates. But some employees may be forced to take comp time when they would rather have the extra money.

  • So this is the new “line” they are going to use to try to get elected. Why do I have a sneaking feeling that if they are elected they would likely go back to their old (and tired and out of touch) ways?

  • Can the GOP succeed without tossing red meat to it’s far-right flank?

    I think the right-wing is going to completely spaz out about the new “American Family Agenda.” The GOP has completely tossed aside “traditional family values” for things like a “family-friendly work week.” That’s just not going to fly– especially considering CA’s recent move toward marriage equality.

    McCain must walk a very fine line between appealing to moderates and appealing to the Theocratic Right. If they don’t talk about abortion or gay marriage this year they’re in for a world of trouble from their most hard-core followers. They will stay home, no doubt about it. Although I worry that a lot of Hillary’s supporters may be more than happy to fill in the gap. (Which might be one of the reasons that they’ve omitted such hot topics in the first place.)

  • Katy Hill Prescott, Az. said:
    As a single, retired, female I am sick of having to pay for everyone else’s children. My neighborhood has 3 families of home schoolers with 7 children per family Because I was a mail carrier I know they all receive family assistance and free medical care. The mothers don’t work they stay home and “teach” their kids while my taxes support them. This is Buls**t. They are all born again christians and Republicans..

    You bring up two different issues. The second issue is the irony (or hypocrisy) of Republicans accepting the kind of government assistance that they want to take away from everyone else — using a sliding scale that takes away assistance in proportion to the amount of melanin in their skin.

    But the primary issue is whether to use tax dollars to help families raise their children now, or pay much more later in medical treatments in an emergency room, lost potential wages and even costs of incarceration. To quote an old commercial, “You can pay me now, or pay me later.”

    The issue deserves a reasoned and factual debate. Is is better to continue our hodge podge system of private health insurance or to simply pay a little more in taxes to get everyone on medicare? Can we make it possible to once again have families able to support themselves in a middle class lifestyle on a single paycheck? And what would the best method be — earned income credits? raising the minimum wage? eliminating the tax incentives to ship jobs overseas?

    Maybe, since the Republicans say they recognize that there are problems, we can have the debate. But I just don’t think they’re suggesting things they truly believe in.

  • sounds like “appeasement” to me. Sounds to me like the GOP’s been BS’ing the religious right all along about their “faith”-based agenda (as un-Christian as that agenda often was, but shhhhh, don’t tell the fundies that or else their heads will explode under the weight of sheer hypocrisy…on second thought, tell ’em early and often). Either that, OR they’re now kowtowing to mods & indies to woo them back, and they’re hoping the evangelicals don’t mind if they & their agenda is shunned & isloated like the crazy aunt in the basement during the family reunion. Either scenario is so rife for backfiring, but Repubs, at this point have no option. It’s almost divine justice – there was no way the right was going to be able to keep pleasing both fundies and the indies & mods without getting the indies & mods to become fundies themselves. Fear did the trick for a while, but now that dog don’t hunt no more. What else is left, really, besides a complete repudiation of the fundie agenda & the hopes that the fundies are too afraid of starting from scratch to splinter off and starting their own party as they keep threatening to do when they don’t get the attention they want?

    This could very well be the beginning of that, a mutiny in the GOP where the fundies, who will now feel underappreciated & undervalued, either splinter off or just refuse to GOTV. I’m sure high-up muckety mucks in the evangelical biz hav been assured (heh, appeased) that this is all lip service to stop the hemorraghing within the party, and once the party’s back on track, the red-meat will flow freely again. But will that appease or enrage the religious hoo-has? And if it does, will they be abe to keep their flocks in line?

    Interesting times.

  • Katy, you don’t even make any sense. These families are keeping 21 kids out of the public schools and you’re complaining that they cost you money? People have a right to teach their kids at home if they want to, and they have a right to apply for public assistance, and to receive it if they qualify. Good grief, Blackwater is still getting federal contracts. Direct that outrage someplace constructive.

  • @ 8: So this is the new “line” they are going to use to try to get elected. Why do I have a sneaking feeling that if they are elected they would likely go back to their old (and tired and out of touch) ways?

    I was thinking much the same thing. The words “bait and switch” come to mind.

  • I think the right-wing is going to completely spaz out about the new “American Family Agenda.”

    I think so, too. I think a lot of right-wing Christians–the ones who aren’t strongly motivated enough by their pastors and friends to get off the couch and go vote against Obama’s secret scary Muslimitude and deep friendships with unnamed Islamic terrorists–are going to be staying home in November.

    I wish we had a nice fundamentalist third-party candidate for them to vote for. Bob Barr isn’t going to cut it for them, nor will many of these people vote for Alan Keyes. Perhaps one of the highest-profile political preacher men will be inspired to throw his hat into the ring after reading this family platform. After all, some of them are gauging that it’s better to lose this election and retain the religious right’s influence in the party than to cede that power now. I think it’s already gone and ain’t coming back, but they understandably don’t want to think so.

  • Unless Congress finds some solid sources of increased revenues, LITE is about all we can expect to receive from either party. Look out. This may be the way of making it look like they are doing something to help people while at the same time cutting the real meat out of major entitlement programs. We are in the age of scarcity folks and it won’t be pretty.

  • katy: I echo what zoe ky says. The kids didn’t ask to be born into a family of far-right homeschoolers. Don’t punish them.

    BUT: some states are beginning to realize the problems with home schoolers — that they just don’t get the education they need. (There are other — and worse — problems, including indoctrination and no chance to catch parents who are into ‘bible-based baby beating,’ but those are harder to bring out and makes issues of.) So, get involved in races that are far ‘down ticket’ like school boards and such. If there are any states which make “Sec. of Education” elective, bring this out in those races. Challenge your local representatives to bring up a bill requiring home-schooled children to pass the same exams other kids have to (and make sure the tests are held in schools, not as ‘mail-ins’ so we can be sure the kids, not the parents are taking them).

    You might even be able to hit them on textbooks — but I’d suggest that you have ‘ministerial cover’ for this one. Most Protestant denominations are not creationist, do not accept the lies of David Barton and the “Christian nation” crowd, and do understand why separation of church and state are important. (Catholics are not already aboard on these issues, though some Catholics don’t know what their Church teaches.) So get your local minister to bring these points up.

  • It seems the Democrats have largely claimed all sensible stands on family issues. The center had been abandoned so long by Republicans, the Democrats squatted the territory. This is one of those times it is nice to have the Blue Dog Democrats. The Republicans will have to pry these issues from them.

    Re Katy, I lived in Arizona way back when all of the retirees to Sun City were up in arms that they had to pay school taxes to Peoria. Why, hell, they’d already paid their share back in Michigan. They eventually were removed from the district. I always thought their attitude was quite despicable (cue Daffy Duck), given the number of childless couples and old folks who paid when their kids were in school.

  • Katy, if you are trying to sound like a hypocritical Democrat, you will probably need to try harder.

  • I always thought their attitude was quite despicable (cue Daffy Duck), given the number of childless couples and old folks who paid when their kids were in school.

    Yeah, because not educating children properly is soooooo beneficial to everyone who lives in this society.

    People who choose to live in a community in which everyone is the same age group, income level and mostly the same race aren’t really models of cross-demographic understanding, huh? The whole Sun City concept is freaking weird to me.

  • As for the topic as a whole, these issues were always more useful as GOTV issues. They were never that popular among the electorate as a whole. And they are losing their strength as new voters enter the electorate who either don’t care or are strongly on the Democratic side, as older voters realize that their votes for things like this might have cost them — or their neighbors — a family member in Iraq, and as even some of the religious right have noticed, many of the minsters and congressmen who played to their homophobia were in fact gay.

    But the Republican Party Platform will be written by the hard-liners. McCain is apparently facing a revolt because he want an exception for the health of the mother in the abortion plank. And I think we can use those issues against the Republicans — not everywhere, but in more districts than we think. Challenge the candidates on the platform planks, ask them why they aren’t making the arguments they did last time — and quote the old speeches — ask them if they still believe what they argued.

  • The Republican Party is coming very late to this party, and it is obvious political pandering. When I see the majority of Republicans voting in favor of truly family-friendly policies over the next 12 years, I might begin to believe they are waking up to the real needs in this country. Until that time, Democrats need to maintain a majority in both the House and Senate and the Presidency.

  • “Democratic Lite” is nice, but I prefer to “compliment” the “new” GOPers by calling them “the Phony Democrat party.”

    On the second issue, let’s look at Katy’s post:

    As a single, retired, female I am sick of having to pay for everyone else’s children.

    That’s part of being a citizen and a taxpayer. You pay for schools, you pay for playgrounds, and you pay for parks, sidewalks, streetlights, streets, and everything else that kids use these days. Your opening line alone pretty much tells the story—you hate kids. Period. You also demonstrate a penchant for hating people who do have kids. I’ve got three here in the house with me right now, so you’ll have to hate me too. Go for it.

    My neighborhood has 3 families of home schoolers with 7 children per family.

    So—what is the big deal here? Homeschooling is perfectly legal in your state. It’s perfectly legal in my state, too. There are about 1.2 million kids in this country being homeschooled right now. I’ve had some of them as students, and they run circles around the “whiny woofers” that I get from the public school programs. By the way—I homeschool my kids. Now you’ve another reason to hate me. Again—go for it.

    Because I was a mail carrier I know they all receive family assistance and free medical care.

    So as a retired postal carrier, you’re now allowed to go online and openly discuss the contents of other people’s mail? The last time I checked, that was a federal offense, and could cost you your federal pension. But beyond that, the last time i checked, there were about 15 million people in this country on food stamps. There were about an additional 40 million receiving some type of federal assistance, whether a medical card or a free school lunch. Perhaps you’re anxious to violate their federally-guaranteed privacy rights? Once again, I invite you—go for it.

    The mothers don’t work they stay home and “teach” their kids while my taxes support them. This is Buls**t..

    No—it is “bulls**t” to have to pay taxes so you can suck up a federal pension while you defame and slander others by way of having violating their rights under the law during your term of employment. It is “bulls**t” to realize that I, as a taxpayer and frequent user of the United States Postal Service, had to subsidize your wages so you could read other’s mail. It wasn’t your freaking job to read the addresses to see where the mail was coming from; you were supposed to be concentrating on where the mail was going to. But since you’re so worried about people who get a government check while staying at home to teach their kids, you’ll have to really hate me at an elemental level—I teach at a state university. My paychecks basically say “State of Ohio” on them. My OPERS pension plan and benefits packages are all courtesy of the taxpayers, as are all the other little “perks” of my profession.

    And yes—I still have the time to teach my own children, at home.

    They are all born again christians and Republicans

    Not all “born again Christians” are bad; neither are all “Republicans.” But to argue that someone should be denied access to legitimate social benefits offered by any agency of government on the basis of religious or political affiliation is no different than what was done in fascist Italy, or Nazi Germany, or any of the tin-pot dictatorships that exist today on the planet.

    You wouldn’t be one of those, now would you, Katy?

  • While this shift in attitude is nice, McCain has already come out and said that he will not seek any shift in direction from the Republican Party platforms of the recent past. The Republican convention will still be tossing out the red meat and one document signaling a shift in tone does not a revolution make.

    What will be convincing that there is a new Republican party in the wings will be a party purge. When they start forcing out the people that put them in this spot of disfavor I will believe the party has changed. You can’t teach their old dogs any new tricks, but you can take the crazy rabid ones out back and shoot them.

  • Just curious as to how much “play” this new Republican “compassionate conservatism” is getting in the Republican ranks?

    Have any Republican leaders or church officials made any comments about it?

  • The meme “I don’t like paying for things (through taxes) that I don’t use” is the Republican divide and conquer strategy.

    You could say the same thing about insurance. Most of us pay for it and never ‘get our money back.’ But somehow the insurance industry is very effective at selling insurance and everyone seems to understand it.

    There there are investments. Somehow businessmen are good at convincing us to part with our money now, in the hopes that it will come back later when we need it.

    One of these things is Social Security. Imagine if there was an investment that you could make where someone chipped in a 100% matching contribution, and guaranteed that your payout would index with inflation. Could you sell that investment?

    Many years ago it used to be beneficial, maybe required for you to have children, many of them, so that you could provide for your retirement. Hopefully some of them would reach adulthood and care enough about you to support you. But if you were unfortunate, you might end up unmarried, or your children would die, or be unable to help out. For some stupid reason our government thought that it was a better idea to pool our retirement plans by pooling contributions from our neighbor’s children. Maybe they will get some kind of decent education, grow up, and pay into the Social Security system so us old retired folks can live in peace.

  • The Republicans can achieve most of what they want to accomplish on the social side as well as their business interests with the aid of more conservative judges. This way they don’t have to broadcast what they intend to do but just keep doing it. And they are just as accomplished at the triangulation game as democrats have been in seeking the middle ground. The pendulum is swinging back to the middle when it will be least consequential in hurting their major interests because the democrats won’t have much in the kitty to really do much with anyway. If anything, this has lowered my expectations of the democrats rather than raised them on the republicans.

  • Right on Katy.

    Last time I checked there was no shortage of people in the world. Even if you can pay for them, having 7 kids is selfish, egomaniacal, and irresponsible. Not that big families aren’t cool and maybe even better for the kids, but the world’s economic, technological, and ecological circumstances make them indefensible.

  • Steve, chill out, please; your post contains some very poor reasoning. I happen to think Katy’s attitude is dead wrong, too, but reading return addresses on mail is not a “federal offense.” Nor is an unidentified person mentioning a couple of unidentified families online “openly discussing the contents of other people’s mail” or “violating their rights under the law.” Nor is criticizing recipients of public assistance–however wrongly–the equivalent of “hating” everyone who gets a “government check.”

    Your emotion has squelched your thinking here. As others have pointed out, Katy’s post is distressing because it mirrors the Republican view that taxes should be optional and that we don’t all have a responsibility to support a healthy society, not because it offends you personally in details that reflect your own life choices.

  • CB: “Republicans can embrace these issues now, but I don’t imagine they’ve figured out how to explain why they’ve been voting against these kinds of proposals for years.”

    As someone else said above, when the Rs have been voting FOR the kinds of issues they now propose for a good number of years I’ll believe them. But now? Not so much. In fact, not at all.

    And the Dobsons, et al of the Repub party are going to be royally p*ssed about this.

  • Here’s a “Dem-lite/GOP-lite” idea I wish all these folks who talk about the value of volunteerism would consider:

    If you are any kind of a professional and you do “pro bono” work for any sort of “good cause” and you take a tax deduction for your time spent doing whatever it is you did, you can claim your time at minimum wage. That’s it. So where’s the incentive for some $200/hour lawyer to help a community organization set up a 501(c)-3 organization (at a billing cost of around $15,000 for time), or a tax accountant to help that organization take care that it’s handling its donations right and doing its reports right (probably a good $10K in billing time for a small organization)?

    If either side were to modify the tax code so that when anyone does anything for a “volunteer” organization – from carpentry and painting to anything else and up to big-ticket items as described above, that that person could deduct the actual cost of their time at their “professional billing rate”, it could vastly improve the operation of all sorts of “good” organizations, and improve society by fostering more volunteerism which leads to a feeling of shared community, which is one way to start undoing the rightie “I’ll take mine and fuck you” philosophy.

    Just a thought, if anybody wants to do something simple that really would help things.

  • CB said ‘ Republicans almost certainly came to the conclusion that they had no choice but to change direction. That’s probably the right call, but the GOP should still keep expectations low.’

    The 2 party system strikes again. It’s all about getting elected. In the rush to the middle, ideas, good and bad, are expendible. Whether its the Clinton/DLC crowd or the repentant neocon gang doing the rebranding, the result is that substantial minority constituencies go unrepresented.

  • Maria, as “Katy” appears to have used her own name, and identified these families on her street, and openly given her city, she’s just told everyone in Prescott that these three families are on public assistance—and she used her position as a USPS retiree to do so. That’s pretty much a violation of Postal codes, because she was privy to private information as a carrier, and has exploited that information for her own purposes—again, a violation of Postal codes. And by bringing the homeschooling issue into play, she’s also violated the rights of these families—with specificity to the children of these families—as identified under the United States Family Education Rights and Privacy Act.

    Which, by the way, is a federal law.

    If it seems that I’m going over the edge on this one, then fine—so be it. I’ve spent too many years watching kids and their families being used as “tools” by people who want this program cut and that program curtailed. Oft-times, it’s the republicans; oft times, it’s the progressive, hard-core fringe-contingent of the Democratic Party that wants to make everyone climb into the same, one-size-fits-all box.

    I’m not trading my personal and professional ethics (as a parent and as an educator) for Party affiliation.

    Moving on to Tom’s idea for “fair compensation,” it’s a fantastic idea—simple, yet comprehensive and all-encompassing. It puts “service” on an equal level with “product.”

  • Tom: It’s a good idea in general, but remember that this would mean every semi-professional person who worked on a Church Bulletin could get a tax deduction for his time at professional rates, that every lawyer for the various religious-law firms could get deductions for their time fighting for creationism, rights of ‘ex-gays’ etc.

    I don’t know if this is an argument against your proposal or not, but I thought it needed mentioning.

  • TC,

    Give em half the going rate. Otherwise where’s the volunteerism? The program could end up being a workfare program for the dregs of the professions and we all know lawyers are particularly adept at creating work especially with a government guarantee of good compensation. Not saying its a bad idea at all but it certainly would need some tuning up and might necessitate bureaucracy to protect against fraud. No good idea goes unpunished,lol.

  • Michael, you make a good point—except for one issue. Tom suggests a tax reduction—and those “dregs of the profession” won’t profit all that much if they spend forever-and-a-day doing good deeds, and don’t have the taxes for off-setting in the first place.

    Example: “Lousy Lawyer A” doesn’t get very many “real” clients because he has earned his nom-de guerre—being “Lousy Lawyer A.” He’d be about as “useful” as a superhero who keeps crashing into trees, buildings, and parked Plymouths. All he’ll ever do is reduce his tax liability to zero, which, by being known as Lousy Lawyer A, will be a pretty easy thing to do.

    On the other hand, Powerhouse Legal Firm B can make a lot of money off a deal like this, and it wouldn’t be too hard to have senior partners do some pro bono work on an annual basis (good PR for the firm), and also establish pro bono requirements as part of their internship programs. Colleges could do the same thing; there’s little difference between a group of college kids doing community service by painting an elderly lady’s house, and a couple of bar candidates helping her set up a will or re-negotiate a debt when inflation does a hellacious number on her fixed income.

  • Prup (aka Jim Benton) @16 said:

    BUT: some states are beginning to realize the problems with home schoolers — that they just don’t get the education they need. (There are other — and worse — problems, including indoctrination and no chance to catch parents who are into ‘bible-based baby beating,’ but those are harder to bring out and makes issues of.) So, get involved in races that are far ‘down ticket’ like school boards and such. If there are any states which make “Sec. of Education” elective, bring this out in those races. Challenge your local representatives to bring up a bill requiring home-schooled children to pass the same exams other kids have to (and make sure the tests are held in schools, not as ‘mail-ins’ so we can be sure the kids, not the parents are taking them).

    You might even be able to hit them on textbooks — but I’d suggest that you have ‘ministerial cover’ for this one. Most Protestant denominations are not creationist, do not accept the lies of David Barton and the “Christian nation” crowd, and do understand why separation of church and state are important. (Catholics are not already aboard on these issues, though some Catholics don’t know what their Church teaches.) So get your local minister to bring these points up.

    I disagree with the notion that homeschooled kids are not as well educated. Most homeschool kids I’ve met are very smart, and well-educated. In fact, my daughter was not doing well in public school in 6th grade, so we took her out and homeschooled her this year. Since homeschool kids in Alabama take the same standardized tests that public school kids take, it was very easy to see that her scores jumped 20+ points across the board from the previous year.

    This is anecdotal evidence, obviously, but I have never seen any statistics that indicate homeschooled kids do worse on standardized tests. Have you? Furthermore, I have seen statistics that indicate that parents who are more involved with their kids’ education (whether public, private, or homeschooled) have kids that perform better in school. And I would venture that there is a strong correlation between parents that homeschool their kids, and parents that care about their kids education. I have seen tons of public school kids whose parents seemed to care less. I have never met a homeschool parent that didn’t care about their kids education.

  • Yeah Steve I knew as soon as I sent it the dregs part was suspect. Then I thought, it all depends on how you define dregs.

  • Katy Hill Prescott, Az. @2 said:
    As a single, retired, female I am sick of having to pay for everyone else’s children. My neighborhood has 3 families of home schoolers with 7 children per family Because I was a mail carrier I know they all receive family assistance and free medical care. The mothers don’t work they stay home and “teach” their kids while my taxes support them. This is Buls**t. They are all born again christians and Republicans..

    First of all, as someone who was single until age 32, I paid taxes for 15 years without any kids. Turns out I don’t really resent that. As a married man with a couple of small children, and a homeschooled teenager, I still pay taxes for schools, even though none of my kids attended public school this year, and I pay taxes for medicare, even though I also pay for my own health insurance. Somehow, I manage not to be bitter about all this. It is hard.

    The fact is, MOST people who are paying taxes to support kids, aren’t receiving any direct benefit, but as many have pointed out, there are lots of “invisible” benefits to a society that takes care of those who cannot take care of themselves. As I tell my teenager often, in my best “Kindergarden Cop” voice – “Stop whining!”

    Secondly, how do you know the homeschool families aren’t paying taxes? Oh, I forgot, your read their mail.

  • Michael7843853 said (@27, 31)

    Last time I checked there was no shortage of people in the world. Even if you can pay for them, having 7 kids is selfish, egomaniacal, and irresponsible. Not that big families aren’t cool and maybe even better for the kids, but the world’s economic, technological, and ecological circumstances make them indefensible.

    The 2 party system strikes again. It’s all about getting elected. In the rush to the middle, ideas, good and bad, are expendible. Whether its the Clinton/DLC crowd or the repentant neocon gang doing the rebranding, the result is that substantial minority constituencies go unrepresented.

    Michael, you cut to the core of the issue like no one I’ve ever seen. If only there were some utopian state that embodied these ideals…someplace where it was illegal to have more than 1 child, and there was only one political party, and it spent all of its time working for the benefit of its citizens…what a glorious people’s republic that would be!

  • Katy Hill Prescott, Az. @2 said:

    As a single, retired, female I am sick of having to pay for everyone else’s children. My neighborhood has 3 families of home schoolers with 7 children per family Because I was a mail carrier I know they all receive family assistance and free medical care. The mothers don’t work they stay home and “teach” their kids while my taxes support them. This is Buls**t. They are all born again christians and Republicans..

    And, by the way, there are two “L”s in “bulls**t.”

    And it isn’t capitalized.

    If you don’t pay your taxes to support kids’ education, how will they learn that? 🙂

  • Addison,

    I wasn’t advocating a one party system or forced restrictions on family size. Although I believe government’s role in a modern complex society certainly includes more than physical defense, not everything should be decided by statute and/or religious or political dogma, and not everybody can, or will, live and think the same way. But ideas based discourse is an ideal about which there can be no compromise in a free society, and absolute pragmatism is no more idyllic than regimented idealogy.

    Curiously, my substitute father, who was my uncle and my mentor, was named Addison.

  • What? Just in time to ride the great tsunami of rage against the activist judges of California who are trying to undermine the family by destroying marriage for everyone the Republicans are declaring war no more? Yeah, sure. This will last ten minutes. Then it’s back to the barricades.

    They are just not in a position to unilaterally disarm in the midst of the culture war. It may look like they are going to lose soon (and badly), but they haven’t lost yet. They are still going to win some battles. And plenty of their followers are suited up and loading their guns. Abandon them?

  • Michael7843853 @ 41

    Addison,

    I wasn’t advocating a one party system or forced restrictions on family size. Although I believe government’s role in a modern complex society certainly includes more than physical defense, not everything should be decided by statute and/or religious or political dogma, and not everybody can, or will, live and think the same way. But ideas based discourse is an ideal about which there can be no compromise in a free society, and absolute pragmatism is no more idyllic than regimented idealogy.

    Curiously, my substitute father, who was my uncle and my mentor, was named Addison.

    Michael,

    Well said, and props to you for having a sense of humor (unlike some). 🙂

  • Knock it off single non-moms. I know for a fact that your specific taxes went for the defense budget…only adults with children had their taxes directed specifically for education and social programs. The IRS sorted them out specifically. Justified rationalization huh?

    Question republicans answered was: “Would you rather be elected…or be right”? Why had they not been doing the change we deserve all along? The party of hypocrisy now claims to be willing to listen…and we should believe them? Especially in their most desperate moments of losing their offices.? Right.

    And Yes Steve…ALL evangelicals are bad… trying to bring about the end of the world thinking that will bring back someone who will save them (and only them) from the horrors they are busy trying to bring about. Nice people though…give you the shirt off their back.

    Same with republicans…all republicans are bad…because they don’t believe in government as family but as something that should only function to ensure and protect their personal interests. Some of them are nice people though…give you the shirt off their buddies’ back. Don’t get me wrong though…I love ’em like a brother…just not one of mine.

  • Okie@7 has it right.

    I’ve wanted to see states outlaw exemptions to overtime. Even CEO’s should get it.
    Are they REALLY working 60 hour weeks? Clock it in.

    Comp time is fine, but they need to get 1.5 hours for every hour overworked.
    Okie has it exactly right, there needs to be a disincentive. If it costs them the same, they’ll overwork every time. They’d be fools not to.

    Any company griping about costs merely needs to lower salaries enough that the overtime of actual hours worked produces the same paycheck.

    Your CEO makes 4 million? Cut him to 2 million and his overtime will put him at about the same amount.
    Timesheets are due Thursday, Mr. Chairman.

  • Well, I find it interesting that the Republicans are finally moving along. Will it last? Who knows, but this does prove that yet again, the Republicans are always 25 steps behind the issues that matter. Why people continue to vote to stay in the dark ages…I don’t know!

  • Until what is left of the normal adults in the Republican decide the party is worth saving, this whole sad process is going to continue like those perpetual Turkish rug sales..that never never never go away.

    “LAST DAY! GOING OUT OF BUSINESS! GET YOUR RUG TODAY!”

    The one and only true step they need to take to save the structure of the party is to demand the rightwing nut cases be cut loose and told to go start their own political party.

    The second is to consider the use of war for a political tool no longer an option in the 21st Century for the United States of America.

    Lincoln would definitely approve of that move.

    Fascists have NO place in The United States of America.
    NO place to run. No place to hide.

    Shun them, RNC.
    They’ve ruined your namebrand.

  • Well, it’s not like they have to KEEP any of the pretty promises the make, do they? All that matters to the Republican party is that they win by any means necessary.

    On the other hand, I have no doubt Barrack Obama will keep his word. It’s called ‘Integrity’, Republicans, and it cannot be bought. You either are born with it or you’re not.

  • Once the 2008 elections are a footnote, the Democratic Party should do some badly needed house cleaning. There are far too many “Democrats” holding state and federal office throughout the South who when it comes to casting their votes have proven themselves over and over again to really be knee-jerk, Right leaning Republicans. They don’t support the Party agenda, so the Party should rid itself of them.

  • Hey Steve,

    Chill out Bro, Obviously Katy’s post touched a raw nerve about home schoolers. I guess being kooped up all day in the house with your kids has made you realize why we have public education, to get your kids out of your hair for part of the day.

    But seriously, I have worked with several people that were the product of home schooling and their social skills and interpersonal communication is noticeably retarded compared to coworkers from public and private schools.

  • First, I’m a social and fiscal conservative Republican. We homeschooled several of our children which, according to SAT/ACT scores and other tests THEY have taken, have scored higher than most public school students. I had two children that we had to put in public school that learned less and had influences that has hurt them. My wife stayed home to homeschool most of the children and I have worked a job and started a business to be able to do it. The government has a responsibility up to a point but some things are best left to the private sector which does a better job with less costs. The more the government does for us, the more control it has over us. We should lower taxes, drill for the oil here that we already have, and fund the military which is fighting over there so we won’t have the terroist fanatics come here. This next statement won’t make sense to some. We as a country are going down because we have forsaken the one who helped us. Second Chronicles chapter 7, verse 14 says, “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” God is talking to the Christians. We are the ones who need to humble ourselves before God, pray, seek God, and turn from OUR sins, and then God will help our country.

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