Wondering what could have been…

Once in a great while, we can point to just one thing that ruined a presidential campaign. For Joe Biden in ’84, it was the controversy surrounding plagiarism. For Gary Hart in 1988, it was a scandal in his personal life. But in most instances, when campaigns come up short, it’s a wide variety of factors, some of which have nothing to do with the candidates themselves.

I suspect books will be written about Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, and why things didn’t work out for the one-time frontrunner, but now that the race for the nomination is over, it’s probably worth taking a moment to consider the inevitable “what went wrong?” question.

Atrios noted a couple of times this morning that news outlets have been asking this question quite a bit, but the media seems to be missing one of the major factors: “[I]t is Iraq. No Iraq, no way to challenge Clinton.”

Yglesias agrees:

Clearly, Iraq alone wasn’t enough to carry Obama to victory. But had Clinton voted against the war in 2002 there would have been no Obama challenge — it would have been a senseless and absurd thing to do. In short — no war, no Obama.

That sounds right to me. I’ve wondered from time to time during the process what would have happened if Clinton had taken a page from John Edwards’ playbook and acknowledged, long before the campaign began in earnest, that voting for the war was the wrong move. Edwards’ candor and regret was seen as sincere, and he gained considerable credibility in progressive circles by proactively acknowledging his mistake, explaining why he made it, and arguing how he’d do better in the future.

Clinton never felt comfortable with this move. I think I know why — she didn’t want to appear like a “flip-flopper,” or someone the Republicans could characterize as “weak” when it came to the military and/or national security. But the result was an awkward dynamic in which Clinton wouldn’t say she was wrong, but couldn’t say she was right. Clinton became quite adept at dodging questions about what she would have done if she could make that vote again, but voters could tell she was being evasive.

It gave Obama an opening, and a chance to distinguish himself as the one who got the “big question” right from the start. That Obama and Clinton agree on practically everything else made this distinction all the more significant.

To be sure, I don’t think Dems, in general, necessarily used the 2002 AUMF vote as a litmus test. John Kerry and John Edwards both voted with the majority on this, and Dems embraced their ticket with great enthusiasm. Indeed, Clinton was the Democratic frontrunner throughout 2007, and everyone knew full well how she voted on the war five years prior.

The point, though, is that it gave Obama an edge on one of the biggest, if not the biggest, issues on the minds of Democratic voters. It was a foot in the door. Without this distinction, Obama might not have even run. And without Obama, Clinton probably wins the nomination in a walk. (Her major competitors — Edwards, Dodd, Biden — voted the same way on Iraq that she did.)

And what about what happened after Obama got his foot in the door? It’s probably not realistic to think Clinton lost the 2008 nomination in October 2002, especially given her enormous leads over the Democratic field as late as, say, November 2007.

I’m still collecting my notes (and thoughts) about the various missteps and strategic errors that contributed to Clinton’s strong second-place finish, but the WaPo has a fascinating front-page item that everyone really should read about how and why the Obama electoral strategy — focusing on delegates, not states — was simply a better game-plan.

Almost from the beginning, Hillary Rodham Clinton’s superior name recognition and her sway with state party organizations convinced Barack Obama’s brain trust that a junior senator from Illinois was not going to be able to challenge the Clinton political machine head-on.

The insurgent strategy the group devised instead was to virtually cede the most important battlegrounds of the Democratic nomination fight to Clinton, using precision targeting to minimize her delegate hauls, while going all out to crush her in states where Democratic candidates rarely ventured.

The result may have lacked the glamour of a sweep, but last night, with the delegates he picked up in Montana and South Dakota and a flood of superdelegate endorsements, Obama sealed one of the biggest upsets in U.S. political history and became the first Democrat since Jimmy Carter to wrest his party’s nomination from the candidate of the party establishment. The surprise was how well his strategy held up — and how little resistance it met.

“We kept waiting for the Clinton people to send people into the caucus states,” marveled Jon Carson, one of Obama’s top ground-game strategists.

“It’s the big mystery of the campaign,” said campaign manager David Plouffe, “because every delegate counts.”

Clinton gambled on a strategy in which she’d cruise to some early victories, before wrapping up the nomination on Super Tuesday. When she stumbled in Iowa, and split the Super Tuesday contests, Clinton didn’t seem to have a Plan B.

Senior advisers, including Plouffe and delegate specialist Jeffrey Berman, diced the country into 435 congressional districts, the basis for pledged-delegate allocations. They examined each district under different scenarios — for instance, before and after former senator John Edwards left the race. And they identified quirks that Obama could exploit — such as the fact that in districts that awarded an even number of delegates, the take was generally split evenly, if the winning margin was kept reasonable.

The campaign leadership had wanted no distractions before the Jan. 3 Iowa caucuses, so the planning in Chicago was done in secret. But on the night of Jan. 4, as Obama’s Iowa staff staggered into his Des Moines campaign headquarters, still ragged from celebrating the senator’s improbable victory there, field director Paul Tewes took it public.

Everyone on the payroll in Iowa would be assigned to another state, he announced. Hotels had already been booked and rooms in the homes of volunteers arranged. Marygrace Galston, who had helped oversee the ground-game deployments, gave staff members until 6 p.m. to say whether they were accepting their new assignments.

Obama’s team left Des Moines and fanned out — to Idaho, to Alabama, to Alaska, places that had never seen a Democratic presidential primary campaign. The months ahead would have other key moments. The late-night standoff in Indiana last month deprived Clinton of a strong victory to offset her crushing defeat in North Carolina — and ultimately left Obama’s big delegate take intact. Edwards’s endorsement of Obama on May 14 helped sap what momentum Clinton had from her landslide win in West Virginia the day before. […]

“It’s the story that hasn’t been written yet, how Obama did everything right, targeting caucuses, targeting small states, avoiding the showdowns in the big states where he could,” said Bill Ballenger, editor of Inside Michigan Politics, who watched the strategy play out in microcosm in his own state, “and how in the end Clinton did so much so wrong.”

Clinton fans are left wondering what could have been.

I agree with this 100%. To this very day, she cannot either see and/or admit that her vote to authorize war on Iraq was a huge mistake for this country.

And I think a lot of people see that refusal to admit a mistake (and perhaps demonstrate that one can learn from it) in Bush.

  • It’s not just Iraq, not even mostly Iraq. Obama is simply a more appealing person than Clinton, period. She’s stiff, over-scripted, boring, and a terrible liar. Obama is just more likeable, more apparently thoughtful, and appears to have some principles beyond his own personal gain. And he’d have dropped out by now were he in her position.

  • I think her most stunning mistake was not putting any energy into the small caucus states. It’s such an obvious and huge error that I’m wondering if the rumors of Mark Penn not understanding how delegates are distributed, was true. There doesn’t seem like any other way to explain it.

    It was a mistake a 13-year old could see.

  • I agree that this is one thing that really helped Obama and one thing that the media, mainstream and otherwise, seem to consistently miss in explaining Hillary’s failure.

    I think that Hillary didn’t want to appear weak, and I also think she was being arrogant, as if to say: “I don’t have to explain my vote to you, I am going to be the nominee and that will be that”.

    It was a critical mistake. People seem appalled that politicians or voters will apply litmus tests to candidates, but that is what the democracy is all about: applying litmus tests to candidates. I have a series of beliefs. If you support my beliefs, I will vote for you. If you don’t support my beliefs, I will not support you.

    So for me, Hillary failed a critical litmus test: 1) admitting that Iraq is a failure and 2) admitting that she had some (albeit small) part in causing that failure.

    In refusing to concede these two items, she appeared to be similar to Bush in both practical policy terms and in temperament, and it made it very hard for me to vote for her.

  • I do not want to take away from the notion that the AUMF vote was important (and in some ways the Kyl-Lieberman vote was moreso because where Edwards had apologized, the K-L vote made it impossible for Clinton to walk the AUMF vote back). But it was not the difference in the election. As unsatisfying as it may be, the “critical moment” was a process thing, not a substantive one.

    Clinton and her team set her up as the “experience” candidate – not a bad gamble if you avoid use of hindsight: under perpetual adolescent W. Bush, the world had gone topsy-turvy. Foreign affairs were in turmoil, the economy was in turmoil, domestic political relations were tumultuous, with all of the administration’s crimes who in government could be trusted, we were a people without mooring. So here comes this mature, moderate woman with whom we were familiar (if not warm); progressive on domestic matters but talking tough on security issues – she would be our calm in the storm. People didn’t really want change — they were already rattled. People wanted soothing stability, maturity, someone who had been tested under fire. Hillary played to that and went one step further (in fact, one step too far): she so fit that bill that she was inevitable.

    But if you are “inevitable,” you really need to win the first contest. And so we have the fatal error right from the start: Team Clinton was seriously late to the party in Iowa. Edwards had operational organizations in all 99 counties before Clinton had anything other than a single central office. Obama had about 15-20 counties up and running before Clinton got beyond her single office.

    If her AUMF vote was different, Obama would not have had a great opening to win in Iowa, but she still would have had trouble getting past Edwards. Conversely, had she been as organized as Edwards, even with her AUMF vote she comes in a close second in Iowa to Obama – rather than third, which was the real killer because it was shocking (even though in any menaingful sense they tied – or Clinton came in second – because she had one more delegate than Edwards).

    She simply didn’t seem ready to start the race and so Obama jumped immediately to a lead she could never truly regain. This may well suggest there was an even earlier, more fundamental turning point: the hiring of and giving substantial control to Mark Penn, who it is now widely reported on multiple sourcing never really understood the rules of caucuses – and never really tried to learn them.

  • The biggest issue for Barack Obama is Barack Obama.

    Hillary Clinton’s biggest mistake was that she ran against Barack Obama.

    Better luck next time.

  • People liked the other guy more.

    The End.

    I think I know why — she didn’t want to appear like a “flip-flopper,”

    This was not a problem when she was for the rules laid down for FL/MI before she was against them.

    Plus there is a thousand mile gap between “flip-flopping” and admitting you made a mistake or would have done something differently had you known, etc.

  • I agree that Iraq was the main issue – had she been an anti-war candidate, then Obama would not have had a chance. But early, before the primaries, I heard a lot of folks express concern about a Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton regime. And there were a number of others who expressed negative feelings toward Hillary. But after Super Tuesday, I didn’t hear those remarks very often. May that means that those who didn’t like her ahd a real place to go. But maybe it means that had to shed her old coat of “establishment” candidate and find a new one. So, yes the war vote cost her, but if there had been no Obama, she would never have developed the “champion of the people” image she had to create to be competitive. And that may be a more lasting legacy for her.

  • Maybe it should be pointed out that many of Hillary’s supporters wanted America to forget Hillary’s Iraq vote because it was “so long ago”, and we should all look to the future.

    Her vote on Iraq was quite probably not “wrong” from her political perspective. It was not an isolated “mistake”, but a proactive vote in a cluster of other pro-war votes and perspectives. She wasn’t “kidding” when she said she’d obliterate Iran — she’d already voted her support of the Kyle-Lieberman amendment. And of course, we know about her vote against a ban on cluster-bombs. All of her positions on matters of war would violate US law, the Geneva Conventions, and other International Human Rights law, and those positions keep her real chummy with GW Bush.

  • I’m not sure Clinton’s team had a “strategy” per se — they burned through way too much money way too quickly all the while exuding an unbecoming hubris about the process. (btw, I’m not anti-Clinton, but I do think she should have chosen far more wisely as far as her campaign team went.)

  • To be sure, I don’t think Dems, in general, necessarily used the 2002 AUMF vote as a litmus test.

    I do. I did. For this primary and the last. It isn’t a general election litmus test, but it’s so very nice to know this time I will vote for someone without holding my nose.

    I don’t think it’s too much to ask our representatives not be duped by intelligence the worldwide intelligence community thought was bunk. Nor is it too much to ask that a doctrine of preemptive war be off the table. Nor is it too much to ask they not be fooled by people who are clearly pathological liars. It would also be nice to count on them to lead, not follow a wave of jingoism masquerading as patriotism, and above all, it would be nice for them to not repeat this mistake.

    AUMF in Iraq was terrible.
    Kyl-Lieberman was unforgivable.

  • All those things are true and important, but for me it was that Obama seemed to know what I wanted before I knew what I wanted. At first I wanted to go all George “Not blinking” Bush on the Republicans. I wanted paybackand if it took Hillary fighting dirty to get it that was okay. But slowly the signs of that kind of campaigning showing up in the Dem primary just reminded me of how sick of it I was. And there was Obama hyping the hope. And I realized that’s what I wanted. A humane intelligent politics.

  • It wasn’t just Iraq from my perspective, although it served to illustrate some of her worst tendencies. Hillary’s behavior throughout the Bush 43 presidency was not stellar. She appeared to be cowardly and conciliatory, trying to appear statesmanlike in the act of placating the Bushwhacks. The experience argument was not really credible and she did little to inspire faith in her ability to exercise breakthrough leadership. There were so many issues she could have defined, reframed or just showcased, even if her ability to stop, stem, or fix them was limited.

  • Wasn’t the Iraq vote for me, though it did give me pause because… how come *I* — with no access to all the data she had — could know that Bush was lying through his teeth, while she let herself be gulled? Wasn’t even my dislike for the whole DLC crowd (because I thought Dean was *brilliant* with his 5- state strategy and they all seemed hell-bent on doing a “mole-job” under him). It was a whole host of little, medium and large things.

    In the long run and boiled down to essentials… Obama strikes me as honest, clever, possessed of good judgement and a quick learner. While she’s none of tose things, especially the last. I mean… OK, so she let herself be duped once. But, to vote for Kyl-Lieberman? A near-replica of the AUMF? It was as if she were saying “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks”. I want my president to be quick on his feet, mentally, because there’s no telling what kind of situations he’ll have to deal with.

  • The tsunami begins with a single drop of water; the avalanche always has its first snowflake.

    When an iceberg hit the Titanic in 1912, the common theme was that it ripped the side of the ship wide open. The truth was that the impact popped a few rivets, buckled a hull plate here and there—and the massive ship was lost due to a collection of small leaks.

    For Clinton, the iceberg was AUMF—and the little “leak” was a rookie Senator from Illinois. But that was only one of two causal factors….

    As the ship took on more water from those first leaks, the bow was pulled deeper, allowing the incoming water to eventually “top” the compartmentalized bulkheads. Had they gone all the way up to the main deck, the ship wouldn’t have sunk.

    Hillary’s “insufficient bulkheads” are numerous: Penn, Wolfson. Penn, her husband, Penn, Carville—did I mention Penn?

    Mark Penn was the second of the two primary factors leading to her demise. He laid out an attack strategy that counted on a series of early knock-out punches, with the final battle being Super Tuesday. That was Hillary’s “Plan A”—and they were forced to stay the course until it was too late, because Penn never came up with a viable “Plan B.”

    “Plan B” was always about “Plan A;” “Plan B” was nothing more than “stay the course.”

    Now who do I know who’s followed that recipe for disaster? There’s this small shrub that’s afraid of horses that keeps coming to mind….

  • Mathew said:
    I agree with this 100%. To this very day, she cannot either see and/or admit that her vote to authorize war on Iraq was a huge mistake for this country.

    As I’ve said before, I can forgive Clinton’s for the Iraq AUMF. As the wife of a president, it’s understandable that she wouldn’t want to limit the options of a sitting president. At the time, she had to give Bush the benefit of the doubt, because he was the sitting president.

    But once Bush proved that he couldn’t be trusted with the power to go to war, she should have spoken up. If she had, I could have supported her. If she had called for Bush to resign because of his gross incompetence, I would have joined her campaign and worked for her nomination.

    But instead of declaring that Bush would not fool her again, she decided to trust Bush’s good intentions a second time — and to continue building her image as being tough on national security — by voting for Kyle-Liberman.

    And instead of speaking out against Bush’s bungling of the Iraq war back when a change of strategy might have made a difference, Clinton waited until public disapproval of the war was over 65 percent before she said anything.

    For Clinton, Iraq was never about principles, it was never about national security — it was all about her public image.

  • While her pro war vote is a large factor for many people turning away from her. She failed to recover due to her stubborn lack of accountability for her decisions and she doesn’t seem to take responsibility for caving to the PACs in her earlier bid for nationalized health care when she was First lady.

    Combine them all and I just couldn’t look her way again. In a nutshell I felt betrayed by her and the way I feel about the Clinton economic “miracle” of the 1990’s?

    It was a FLASH IN THE PAN. Here today and gone tommorrow. That’s the way each and every bit of financial progress will always be until we have the smarts to enshrine our values for nationalized healthcare and nationalized college into our Constitution. We the people need to take charge.

  • The biggest mistake Hils made was assuming that things would work out the way she and her team thought it would.

    Hils implosion is probably the shining example why the Repubs tended to beat the Dems since 1980 until 2006. The DLC’s big states vs Dean’s 50 State strategy.

    This (I hope) is the death (not literal) of the DLC and their “big ideas” consultancies. Why the Dems kept playing D when they should have gone on the offensive all these years is beyond me. Obama has the resources to stretch McCain beyond his campaign’s breaking point by forcing them to defend in places they didn’t expect to defend. Money isn’t everything, but having more of it gives one more options which is why the Repubs lack of funds is telling

  • I would lke to congratulate Senator Obama on earning the Democratic Nomination. His speech last night was gracious, and inspiring, indeed aggressive when it needed to be. I am one of the 17+ million Clinton suppporters who will be expected to fall behind our party’s nominee. For me, at this point in time, the jury is still out.

    I have heard many fine things about Senator Obama. The selection of his running mate will be his first Presidential level-decision. I am objectively watching how he makes it.

    Senator Obama has half the party and Senator Clinton holds the other half. Obviously, one choice is the Joint Ticket. Another logical choice would be Richardson. Each has pros and cons. I will be watching, and it will be interesting to see how he processes the variables.

    This blog copmmunity is intersting, and I am curious to hear your opinions. If not Senator Clinton, then whom? And why? Also, I’m curious, if he did choose Clinton, would that deter you from voting for him in November?

    Let it rip.

  • Biden and Hart were both ’88, or more precisely ’87.

    I’d like to believe that the Clintons’ cowardly “pro-war always equals good politics” precept is what did them in here. For far too long, the presumption in our national politics is that ordering other people into harm’s way somehow equates to “strength.” Obama had the guts to stand against that tide in 2002; to their lesser credit, Kerry and Edwards and many others came to realize that they’d made a terrible mistake regarding their AUMF votes as the consequences of that decision became apparent.

    Clinton, obsessed with staying in the good books of David Broder and Tim Russert and their ilk, never did. This refusal had little to do with principal and everything to do with pandering to that built-in bias in favor of military force–which, admittedly, is an obstacle with which Obama will have to contend in the general election. But he took the principled position, and she did the politically expedient thing–as the Clintons always do. I’m deeply proud of the Democratic electorate for their judgment on both choices.

  • Team Hillary expected a coronation, but they got a contest instead, for which they were unprepared on several levels. Their effort was inadequate in the caucus states, and they had no plan after Super Tuesday.

    They could have overcome all of this if Hillary had the good judgment to do a John Edwards on her Iraq vote. When she refused to admit her obvious error, she sounded just like “stay-the-course” George W. Bush.

    The common thread in these two factors? Hubris.

  • To me the basic problem with Hillary Clinton is that she, over and over, makes bad choices.

    She chose to vote for the AUMF. She chose not to repudiate the vote. She chose Mark Penn. She chose the wrong campaign strategy for the current political climate. She chose not to compete in caucus states. When things started going against her, she chose to take up GOP talking points. After it was obvious she’d lost, she chose to keep campaigning, even though that undermined the party and created enormous ill-will. When her opponent went over the magic number and became the inevitable nominee, she chose not to concede.

    It’s entirely possible that even if she’d voted the right way on AUMF, she’d have found some other wrong choice that would have doomed her nomination. Sad, really.

    Dubya is a stupid, ignorant, venal, dishonest little man in the grip of a horrendous ideology. Hillary Clinton, by contrast, is highly intelligent, knowledgeable, accomplished and, generally, works for good causes. Yet her habitual bad choices would probably have made her an unsuccessful president, just like Bush. Life is inscrutable.

    When the primary season began, I was of the opinion that the long primary season was useless and counterproductive. Now, seeing how it saved us from a bad nominee, I’ve changed my mind a bit.

  • … she didn’t want to appear like a “flip-flopper,” or someone the Republicans could characterize as “weak”

    CB…

    You need to reconcile this thought with the news that leaked out months ago about her “bubble-girl” management style. She peopled her top campaign management positions with yes-freaks. Remember? That’s indicative of a management style that doesn’t tolerate dissent, and admits to errors only when it is expedient. Does that style of managing remind you of someone else?

    I understand you are trying to be generous here to Clinton, but… the evidence is fairly persuasive for a vastly different conclusion.

  • Everett – It’s interesting that you should use the phrases “Obama has” and “Clinton holds” in reference to their supporters. Perhaps you should read this from long time HIllary advocate Hillary Rosen: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hilary-rosen/i-am-not-a-bargaining-chi_b_105133.html

    As for your questions – Hillary on the ticket wouldn’t deter me from voting for Obama. I don’t think HRC on the ticket would help where he needs help, but she wouldn’t turn me off. I would like to see a woman on the ticket; the sausage-fest that is American Presidential politics is beyond nauseating. I also want someone who will work passionately and tirelessly to carry a swing state.

  • What could have been would have been something spectacular, now we will have to hope Obama doesn’t land himself in the middle of a scandal and is somehow able to woo Clinton’s supporters.

    I’m very interested in how he plans to do that considering how it seems none of his supporters want him to pick HRC as his running mate.

    The democratic nominee will get my vote in the fall regardless, but I will not support the party with any more contributions, like most HRC supporters, I’m very dis-illusioned with the party I have supported my entire life.

    PS: HRC did win the popular vote, so don’t expect her to bow out quietly.

  • What Okie said. And her hubris, which many of us saw early on, has finally been put on display for all to see in its vain glory, a fact I am very grateful for as Obama looks for a VP. Had she done things a bit differently many of us would still be giving her the benefit of the doubt, IMO because of her famous husband, who also is now seen for what he is.

  • Iraq may have played a part, but in my mind it had more to do with image than anything else.

    Clinton=Baggage

    Plus, she invoked the “good ol’ 90s” once too often, IMO. People want to look forward not backward and the circumstances today are much much different than when Bill was in office.

  • Ms. Clinton is part of the problem. She sure as hell is not the solution. I will never vote for for a Bush or a Clinton in this life. I don’t care if there is an Asian face behind the name. Both parties led us to where we are now. It would suit me fine to vote all of them out and start over.

  • Easy, Steve. The one moment that Hillary lost can be blamed on the Obama campaign when they unfairly accused the Clintons of being race baiters. I urge any open-minded Obama supporters to read Race Man by Sean Wilentz at The New Republic (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304):

    “Until late in 2007, Hillary Clinton enjoyed the backing of a substantial majority of black voters–as much as 24 percentage points over Obama according to one poll in October–as well as strong support from Hispanics and traditional working-class white Democrats. It appeared, for a time, as if she might well be able to recreate, both in the primaries and the general election, the cross-class and cross-racial alliances that had eluded Democrats for much of the previous forty years. Playing the race card against Obama could only cost her black votes, as well as offend liberal whites who normally turn out in disproportionally large numbers for Democratic caucuses and primaries. Indeed, indulging in racial politics would be a sure-fire way for the Clinton campaign to shatter its own coalition. On the other hand, especially in South Carolina where black voters made up nearly half of the Democratic turnout, and especially following the shocking disappointment in New Hampshire, playing the race card–or, more precisely, the race-baiting card–made eminent sense for the Obama campaign. Doing so would help Obama secure huge black majorities (in states such as Missouri and Virginia as well as in South Carolina and the deep South) and enlarge his activist white base in the university communities and among affluent liberals. And that is precisely what happened.”

  • Clinton fatigue, no more, no less. For the past TWO DECADES there has been a Bu$h or Clinton in the WH, and people are tired of the same old same old.

    On another note, one other positive result of the Bu$h failure, besides bringing down the conservative movement, is that no Bu$h will ever get elected again. Sorry Jeb, your big bro fuucked it up for you.

  • Dan F: Thank you for the link. Ms. Rosen has her opinion, and many others their own as well. But, thank you for the perspective.

    What I am most interested in is watching Obama’s thought process. I think we could agree that some will promote the Joint ticket saying, “Hey 18 million plus 18 million equals 36 million democrats instantly galvanized and focused on Senator Mc Cain.”

    Reading the posts here, we can also agree that many have different perspectives on that one. We can all agree that the names on the short list will be given due consideration. I’m interested in seeing how Obama weighs the pros/cons.

    I know that not everyone will share this point of view but ain’t America great – If he goes with Clinton, I’m in with both feet, let’s rock! If he doesn’t I will listen calmly to his reasons and make up my mind at that point.

    What I’d love to hear are other folks opinions on who Obama should choose.

  • Greg said:

    PS: HRC did win the popular vote, so don’t expect her to bow out quietly.

    I’m getting tired of this little meme. Go here and see the true Popular Vote total (line 1, which excludes MI where Obama was not on the ballot). Or if you like, include Michigan, but then include the Caucus states of IA, NV, WA and ME (line 7). It appears to me that

    Obama won the popular vote.

  • CB,

    Some nitpicking. Biden’s use of remarks by British Labour Leader Neil Kinnock did not occur during the campaign for President in 1984, but rather during the next campaign. You may remember that Michael Dukakis fired his Campaign Manager John Sasso when Sasso was identified as the source of the information.

  • In the Feb 19th Wisconsin primary, which was a state that was favorable enough ground for Clinton, even after a string of losses she waited until the final days before the vote to make a real campaign effort, and Obama won big. For the life of me, I don’t understand why her campaign strategists didn’t do more, and do it sooner.

  • I urge any open-minded Obama supporters to read Race Man by Sean Wilentz at The New Republic

    Are you serious? Sean Wilentz has been a close personal friend of the Clintons since he and Bill were at Oxford together in the late 1960s, through his vehement speech in the impeachment hearings, up to his public endorsement of Hillary over a year ago. He was by several accounts hoping to get an informal spot in the Hillary administration as its Arthur Schlesinger figure, and has been going all out to attack Obama with cheap shots and bizarre arguments for over a year.

    Open-minded? You might as well have referred us to a piece by Hillary’s spokesman Howard Wolfson.

  • What I’d love to hear are other folks opinions on who Obama should choose.

    I think he needs someone from the Clinton camp, but not her. He’s running on a message of change from past politics, and Clinton’s very identity and frankly her type of campaigning in the primary was exactly what he was pivoting against. It just doesn’t work.

    But someone from her circle. Wes Clark would be terrific, or Ed Rendell.

  • sbj (32) – to leave a link, it’s best to leave a blank line, then past the url, then leave another blank line. Since it is so hard to cut and past off CB comments, you’re wasting your time leaving them this way.

    I did, however, go that TNR article yesterday (I assume it’s the same you’re quoting today.) What struck me about it was how much mind reading you had to do to conclude that this was a strategy. Every example that I remember was a response to something someone in the Clinton campaign did. My memory is that the media magnified every one of these examples, before any Obama people even commented. And while I’m guessing you think Obama got preferential treatment from the media, I’m also guessing that TNR is in several cases using the term “Obama supporters” to reach their conclusions.

    With the exception of Keith Olbermann, there is no pro-Obama media. They are all pro McCain. And Olbermann was very much pro-Clinton until sometime after Iowa. My guess is that it was the suspension of David Schuster that did it. In any case I think an objective person would more easily make the argument that the race issue was more the fault of, and more importantly benefit to, Clinton. I say this because the rebound was a woman-as-victim backlash.

    Most importantly, however, is the fact that it was the pro-McCain media that wanted both these issues. They wanted the party divided. While most are far more subtle than Limbaugh, it’s the same strategy.

  • …she didn’t want to appear like… someone the Republicans could characterize as “weak” when it came to the military and/or national security.

    ‘National security’ is pollster-speak for “will kill brown people in case lots for me.” If pollsters had integrity they ‘d ask “In your opinion, will Candidate X kill for you, to calm your fears, or stroke your ego, or piss off the hippies?” The GOP can point to real, extant hecatombs of infidel dead, and nominate candidates who will answer ‘Hell,yeah!’.

    All the Democrats can do is promise — when they should simply refuse to answer.

    The GOP is about to nominate as its candidate the candidate who’s most up front about more wars, longer wars, deadlier—to all parties—wars. If that’s what it takes to win, well, there are things worse than losing elections, and trying to win a poker game played with the bodies of dead brown people who worship the wrong God is one of them.

  • Even as a Clinton supporter we must acknowledge that Obama won the popular vote. However, let’s unpackage that for a second. What does this look like?

    According to Gridlock’s citation, Senator Obama won the popular vote by 61,703 (18,107,710 vs. 18, 046,007). This is out of a total of 36,153,171. This is a difference of 0.17%. About one-tenth of one percent. Is this really a Significant Difference- statisically speaking? Please correct me if I’m wrong, but, isn’t this with in reasonable margin of error? And, no, I’m not implying fraud, so please spare the blogger-investives.

    My point is that this race was darmn close. But this part is over, and we need to move on to selecting a running mate. If I could reach across the schism to the Obama camp, I would please ask you to consider the girth of support Clinton holds.

    If not Clinton, then who?

  • If not Clinton, then who?

    Someone who offsets McCain’s greatest strengths.

    Hillary is weak in the same place Obama is. Neither one of them have military experience. Neither one of the have FS experience.

    Wes Clark is my choice.

    Executive experience would also be nice (HRC doesn’t have that either).

    Richardson has solid FS experience and executive experience.

  • As the baseball writer Bill James used to say, when a team loses, the writers always ask “what did the manager’s decision making contribute to the team losing?” If the team wins, it’s rephrased as “what did the manager’s decision making contribute to the team winning?” In other words, the winning and losing frames the question.

    While I think Penn’s tone deaf statements in conference calls were a discredit to the Clinton campaign, I think it’s too easy to target him — the candidate is ultimately responsible for the campaign.

    If I recall correctly, when Clinton and 21 Senate Dems voted for the AUMF, inspectors had been kicked out of Iraq and Bush/Powell et al. said they needed the AUMF to get inspectors back in and to show the U.N. Security Council that we were prepared to act. They were promised it would be used to get inspections restarted and that they would seek U.N. Security Council approval for military action.

    OK, so she was lied to by Bush. But the question was presented at a time when the CIA was telling the Senate that it was a slam dunk that Iraq was developing WMDs.

    I didn’t think the AUMF was a good idea at the time, because Iraq lost hundreds of thousands of troops in 1991, had no air force, no spare parts for tanks for 12 years, no long range missiles and an economy crippled by sanctions. The CIA has been notoriously wrong before, it told JFK that Cuba had no nuclear armed missiles and that he should invade immediately; it told Reagan that the Soviet economy was growing at 15% per year and would pass the U.S within a decade; it completely missed the fall of the Soviet Union and Iraq’s actual nuclear plant in 1991. Containment (similar to JFK’s approach) was a better strategy, for reasons that, in the words of Dr. Strangelove, “must seem altogether obvious” now.

    But Hillary is from the Sam Nunn/Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party; it may be hard to remember now, but there was a time when Dems were the pro military party (think of when Dick Cheney complained in 1992 that Dems were not cutting military spending fast enough). You may not like that, but that’s what she is; more conservative than a lot of Democratic primary voters. It’s one of the reasons that Obama won, he’s simply to her left on this important issue (which encompasses her call to stick with more traditional diplomacy that was used on a bipartisan basis before 2000).

    Some posters here frame Hillary’s failure to apologize as pandering. But they’re starting from the proposition that she could not actually think her vote was correct at the time she made it, given the facts available at the time. I think she thinks the opposite, that her vote was the right one and that apologizing to seek Dem votes like Edwards did would be the real pandering. (Edwards, who I like generally, seems to have remade himself from the deficit hawk moderate in 2004, who argued then that we should stop promising so many new programs we could not afford, to the progressive of 2008; even if you like him, you have to admit that there was an element of political calculation in the manner and timing of his apology.)

    Clinton/Kerry/Edwards did not get to vote on going into Iraq with too many troops, promising stipends to the Iraqui military then renegging, leaving the ammunition dumps unguarded, de-Baathification which destroyed the entire civilian governmental infrastructure, etc. They voted on a military force resolution. Apologizing for it later to gain votes would show the real lack of character that Hillary opponents on this board attribute to her.

    There are a lot of events that the media will point out to as determinative in the race but I think they are surface issues. Looking back to last December, I thought Obama would do much better than the polls showed because Hillary’s lead in polling among African American voters was never going to hold up.

    I would point to two major reasons Barack won.

    First, he is politically simply more liberal than Hillary. That attracted a lot of Dem voters. (After his early wins, he tried to stay close to her on a lot of issues, going so far as copying some of her proposals, but that was a stragtegic tactic to try to minimize the differences, and I think a lot of Dems look at his as the more liberal candidate over the entire spectrum of issues.)

    Second, the Dem primary/caucus system and allocation of proportional voting provides much weight (far too much in my opinion) to red states and to caucuses that are subject to being overwhelmed by younger, activist voters regardless of their affiliation or past service to the Democratic party, producing skewed results. The Obama campaign exploited these rules — or to put it in less charged language, they ran an excellent campaign under the rules that were layed out.

    When Frazier beat Ali in 1970, and when Ali beat Frazier the next two times, no one said of the loser “he blew it.” The said the winner fought a better fight. I think in this case the winner fought a better fight, but also his policies attracted more votes where he needed them.

    To those of you who despise DLC centrist Democrats, and long for a real progressive, well you’ve got your wish. That’s what these primaries/caucuses were really about. I’m one of those who likes the DLC (I think the $9 trillion deficit created by Reagan/Bush/Bush is a massive problem that is being ignored at our peril) and am seriously concerned with our party nominating a candidate with such a thin resume and no foreign policy experience whatsoever (maybe he can learn the names of some foreign leaders, unlike candidate Bush in 2000) but he’s our guy now so I’ll fall in line and hope for the best in November.

  • I think Hillary lost by running a bad campaign on the advice of Mark Penn.

    As for the AUMF, why didn’t Russ Feingold run on that and win the nomination. He deserved it a lot more than Obama if the criteria is standing up against the march to war (actually really voted against the AUMF). So did Dennis Kucinich. And then Elizabeth Kucinich could be First Lady (hmmmmm!).

    Nope, Obama had a really good strategy to win the nomination against a front runner. Unfortunately, in doing so he has helped to radicalize both his and her supporters (or 20% of each) to such an extentant he’s going to have to spend a lot of the General Election just winning them back rather than crushing McCan’t like the worm he is.

    Obama could name Clinton as his VP, but that would be appeasing Hillary’s 17,000,000 + supporters. Is that how he wants his first major decision to appear to the world?

    I actually think Hillary would be the best candidate for VP (sorryJ-Pork, didn’t read your reasons) for a lot of reasons. And if we didn’t have this anti-democratic practice of letting one person pick the vice presidential candidate I’m sure she’d get it.

    But just as a thought, remember that one person picked Dick Cheney to be the Republican’t VP nominee in 2000…

    … and that was Dick Cheney. 17 million people are probably a better vetting system.

  • Everett, I am a long-time Clinton supporter and I think she would be a very poor choice for VP. Neither she nor Bill (and lets be serious, they come as a package deal) are “second chair” personalities. As a President, you cannot have the VP (and Second Laddie) running their own shop, upstaging you, constantly pushing their own agenda or angle or prominence.

    Moreover, she really doesn’t add a lot: neither has a wealth of traditional experience, both push the buttons of the “white men rule!” sector of society, and she is seen (rightly or wrongly) by all but the far left as someone who is far left.

    Finally, her own team’s tactics have made selecting her almost impossible: by making it a threat or ultimatum, for Obama to choose her now would give every appearance of weakness – of someone who buckles under to threats. In an election where national security will play a role, that is a very bad image to start from.

    In 1980, when Teddy Kennedy was the establishment candidate and was beaten after a long campaign by a still-not-accepted-in-the-Beltway President Carter, he went back to the Senate and embarked on a career of fighting for core Democratic issues that made him known as the Lion of the Senate. Now with his career in twilight and his health in question, Clinton has an exceptional opportunity to pick up that important and powerful mantle. That is what she should do.

    Obama should probably pick a white male, preferably young enough to have a reasonable shot at serving 8 years after Obama’s 8 years, but with enough experience to be credible “a heartbeat away.” It should be someone outside of the Senate, and without a lot of insider-taint, as this will be a change election. If it also is a known Clinton supporter, to build that sort of bridge, better still; alternatively someone who was not strongly identified with either camp is a good possibility. If they can put purple states of the upper midwest, mountain region, soft south, or southwest into play better still. Most important, it needs to be a team player who can work effectively with Obama. Among people who fit many of those criteria (I’m not sure anyone fits all) would seem to be General Clark, Gov. Schweitzer (MT), John Edwards, and Gov. Kaine (VA).

  • I just wanted to drop a line and thank everyone here for restoring my faith in the blogosphere. After browsing around some today (at places like salon and huffpo) I was becoming thoroughly depressed by the continued vitriol being spewed. This blog is like a calm port in a storm!

    thanks!

    (as to the question at hand – I think it’s undoubtably due to ignoring the caucus states and focusing on the Blue Island Strategy. Deride Dean all you want, but 50 State Strategy appears to pay dividends.)

  • Hillary as VP shouldn’t even be on teh table until she publicly endorses him.

    Why would you ask someone who doesn’t support you to be your running mate?

  • The irony is that Hon. Sen. Clinton’s Iraq war vote was made with a presidential bid in mind (so I believe anyway). I wonder if she had instead voted against, and ran in 2004, what might have happened.

    While his was going to be a long shot, I was heartened by the early fact that when Hon. Sen. Obama declared relatively early, and got a bit of recognition, Senator Clinton seemed badly wrong footed (she had recently been issuing the “I’ve made not decisions about running” then, obvious nonsense, and everyone knew it). I felt that she might have had a serious lack of planning at this early stage. Perhaps she had planned to plan later, and this deficit was never addressed because of her awesome poll numbers.

  • To borrow another poster’s metaphor, we really need to dispense with the notion that 17 million people who ordered fish for dinner will automatically eschew ordering beef–or that to get them to order beef, you’ve got to promise them a side of fish.

    Most Clinton supporters will vote for Obama because his policies are in line with their values. Most do not see this as a fight to the death, and most do not carry around an abiding hatred for our nominee. The only relevant question is how many do? I expect some post-nomination polling is going on right now that will provide us with some useful info on that. Since Obama has said he won’t name a VP until next month, the ball’s in Clinton’s court in the meantime to demonstrate that she plays for the team and not solo.

  • I endorse Mark Pencil’s comments at 47 in all of their particulars, with one minor exception (I’m not wild about Kaine and I’m lukewarm about Clark. Schweitzer would be my choice).

  • Everett wrote: Is this really a Significant Difference- statisically speaking? Please correct me if I’m wrong, but, isn’t this with in reasonable margin of error?

    I don’t intend to be pedantic here, so please don’t take it that way. This is a common error for people to make when discussing large numbers – especially numbers that we don’t fully trust. You can’t have a margin of error when you are counting things like votes, or rocks, ducks in a pond. There are twelve ducks in that pond. It is not open to margin of error – only an error in counting.

    Caucus voter totals can not be counted accurately, so there is a margin of error if we try to tease out the popular vote totals from a caucus. This is a bad thing to do as the results of the caucus are what is important. To make a caucus about popular vote disrespects the process and the participants. The caucus margin of error likely favored Obama. Michigan’s un-committed being apportioned definitely introduces a margin of error. That margin of error clearly favored Sen. Clinton.

    If you want to mix the apples and oranges of caucus and primary for a voter participation total, you will end up with a margin of error in that total. But you do not get a margin of error when those agreed upon numbers are doled out. The are what they are. 5 to 4, 3.2 billion to 3.1 billion. 🙂

  • Maria, presumably you also don’t concur in being a long-time Clinton supporter 🙂
    but its hard to quibble when I’m experiencing such a warm glow.

  • Maria, presumably you also don’t concur in being a long-time Clinton supporter

    Well, I was from 1992 until late January 2008, Mark. She wasn’t my first choice in this race–neither was Obama–but nor did I dislike the prospect of her becoming president until her campaign began to unfold in ways that were increasingly disturbing to me.

  • Gridlock @ #35

    If you give Obama 100% of the uncommitted vote when including Michigan, then you are correct. Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is that Edwards had a lot of support in Michigan, and for arguments sake if you give him the 14% of the vote he received everywhere else prior to Feb. 5th, he would have around 84,000 votes.

    In that case, Clinton wins the overall vote by 22,000 votes.

    The RCP count is very good, but it does not count the WA primary instead of the caucuses. Primaries are much better for determining popular vote because caucuses exclude too many people.

  • There are three types of people who were opposed to invading Iraq. There were a few who analyzed the dynamics of the situation and came to the conclusion it was the wrong thing to do.

    There were some who were totally cynical about the President and wouldn’t have trusted him (even in 2002) with a lolipop.

    Finally there were those who don’t think that anything short of out and out invasion of the US would justify US military action.

    The ONLY ones who were “right” at that time in that place were the first group… because we must trust our President sometimes and hope he deserves that trust, and because sometimes we must fight. But the only ones who constantly snear that they “told us so”, seems to be the second and third groups.

    Given the information we had at the time, many of us would have authorized the Iraq invasion. And the only thing we regret, is having been tricked by the President and his team. To demand an apology from us is ridiculous. And if Democrats don’t to let one of us to be President… so be it.

  • The real answer is Mark Penn. Penn was the person in charge of deciding whether or not to humanize her and where to focus the most resources and how they should be targeted. Clinton could have overcome her war vote and other initial problems but his strategy was a constant and unwaivering focus on the minutia of issues. Remember the big debate about mandated versus unmandated health care? Clinton had really lost the race after losing in all of Feb after Feb 5. During that time period there was no change in overall message strategy or focus until just before march 4. That was when Clinton started causing real problems for Obama but by then it was too late. Their strategy should have been to crush Obama and Edwards in the first three contests effectively ending the competition. Instead, they pretty much skipped Iowa in terms of ground game. They needed to be hitting Obama and pushing him to the margins in the very beginning before anyone thought he could really win.

  • I think if Hillary had played the end game with less vitriol and not made her VP request sound like an ultimatum, she would be a fairly decent choice.

    I agree that if Obama chooses her now, he will look weak. Personally, of the potential other candidates, I have to go with Gov. Schweitzer. I like Richardson, but don’t think he showed well in the primaries and don’t think he’d bring much more to the ticket. Schweitzer has the opportunity to help carry the Upper Plains states as well as blue-collar voters.

  • The real answer is Mark Penn. Penn was the person in charge of deciding whether or not to humanize her and where to focus the most resources and how they should be targeted.

    Kind of like Hillary’s version of Donald Rumsfeld.

    Neither George nor Hill had the back bone to make the changes that were needed until it was too late.

  • Gaucho – Clinton had FANTASTIC ground game in Iowa. She had set-up day care centers and hired drivers to get her best demographic to the caucuses. And not to put too fine a point on it – crushing them in the early contests was precisely their game plan…

  • I’m in CA and get to the blog late, but — Yes, H’s fatal error was her ’02 Iraq vote; if she’d emulated Edwards, she might have regained ground, but — just in case we were ready to forgive and forget — along came the Kyl-Lieberman reiteration. Yes, O’s political strategy was brilliant, new and democratic (large/small D), and energized millions. Yes, I voted happily for O and my enthusiasm has only grown. But something else happened, too, I am sorry to say: my regard and admiration for H is gone. Primaries show what the candidates do under pressure, how they work, and this is what we saw: H ran a bad, at times delusional campaign; relied on bad, wildly overpaid advisors; allowed ugly, divisive, even racist(!) personal attacks on the competition, and openly preferred McC over O as passing the presidential “threshold test.” People say H supporters are angry; I am trying very hard not to be angry with them. That H and her cohort refused to concede last night and get with the program, are apparently bargaining for some kind of reward seems very strange to me and, after the depths to which they sank, appalling. And then there’s Wild Bill, her presumptuous, demanding, and angry sidekick. The country, not egos, should come first.

  • Greg at #58.

    And how many votes would Clinton have lost if ANYONE else was on the ballot?

    Therefore, the best way to count popular vote is not look at MI or any of the caucus states. In which case:

    Obama won the popular vote.

    And finally, popular vote shouldn’t matter at all, since the nominee is determined by delegates and not votes. I wonder how many people were split between Clinton and Obama and voted for one, but marked the delegates of the other on their ballot?

  • “What could have been would have been something spectacular…”

    Oh, it would’ve been a spectacle, all right…

  • And how many votes would Clinton have lost if ANYONE else was on the ballot?

    I’ve always been pretty amazed that she only got 55% of the vote running against “none of the above”

    It does not speak to her strength.

  • I’m so sick and tired of hearing about popular votes. This is a primary and the primary had rules and the delegates are the ultimate arbiter of who wins. Everyone knew this going in. Hillary banked on large states, swing states, and popular votes and her strategy brought her up short. End of story… move on already!

  • DanF at 64 –

    I completely disagree about the Clinton ground game in Iowa. They were too late to develop a full-blown statewide ground game and lost opportunities to persuade (ground is not just about GOTV). They lacked discipline (several county captains implicated in sending the ‘Obama is a Muslim’ e-mails). They did not train precinct level caucus chairs as well as Obama’s team did (Obama people in numerous cases I am aware of took a place in the middle of the room and sprawled their group across the middle, largely blocking Clinton emissaries from access to the non-viable groups on the other side!) Yes they did nice mailings, lots of phone banks and recorded calls, door hangers – but those are late-in-the-game items and are largely passive. Obama was organized earlier, better, and more effectively (in most places) for the Iowa caucuses, although I did think my Clinton “caucus kit” was very nicely done.

  • I hope you look into the whole race baiting aspect of her campaign because this clearly had an effect on what happened. From the final totals, it seems like Obama won the nomination 52% – 48%. This is a very close margin, and the strong support from the AA community probably put him over the top.

    I know you have been very skeptical of the claim that she race baited, whether personally or thru surrogates, but large proportions of the AA community believe this. It is something to look into.

  • Well if Hillary became VP, I suppose one could find at least one foreign funeral a day to send her to.

    More seriously, I don’t think she’s relevant to the rest of the campaign, or necessary for Obama’s success. Her support would be nice, and would make things easier, but he can get by without it. Most of her supporters thought she was the best chance for a Democratic win in November, but they’ll go with Obama because they are Democrats and he’s the Democratic nominee. Some women who are threatening to vote for McCain are bitter that they won’t get to see a woman president this time around, but they will come round when they think about what a vote for McCain really means. He’s an anti-choice member of an anti-women party, and his respect for women can be summed up in the way he dumped his wife for a younger and richer model, and then called the latter a whole host of bad words. So most of those will eventually win themselved over, and some will stay home. More than a few Clintonites, like that lady in the infamous video last Saturday and apparently an embarrassing number of voters in Appalachia, have a little more animus going on, but Hillary has stirred up such a poisonous brew there that I don’t think they are going to vote for a ticket with a somewhat black guy on top no matter what Hillary tells them to do. Worse yet, having Hillary on board is going to cost Obama a whole lot of Independents and moderate Republican voters. So I think she can’t add much and he’s better off without her.

  • for TR@39″: Instead of attacking the messenger, why not try reading the article? It should be critiqued based on what it says, not critiqued – without reading – based on the messenger. This is about as closed-minded and intellectually dishonest as one could get.

    for DanP@41: Thanks for the civil reply. A rarity here.

    You seem to take exception to the notion that to acuse the Clintons of being race baiters was a strategy of Obama’s campaign. I think that the fabled South Carolina memo (which Bill Clinton once clumsily referred to) provides strong evidence that to accuse the Clintons of injecting race into the campaign was indeed a campaign startegy.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/read-obama-campaign-memo-_n_81220.html

    “A memo prepared by the South Carolina campaign and circulated to supporters rehashed the King-Johnson matter, while it also spliced together statements of Bill Clinton’s to make it seem as if he had given a speech that “implied Hillary Clinton is stronger than Nelson Mandela.” (The case, with its snippets and ellipses, was absurd on its face.) The memo also claimed, in a charge soon widely repeated, that he had demeaned Obama as “a kid” because he had called Obama’s account of his opposition to the war in Iraq a fanciful “fairy tale.”

    I note that you acknowledge that the Obama campaign primarily responded to supposedly racially insensitive things that the Clintons (or their surrogates) said. I fail to see why a strategy could not have been developed with the intent to ‘respond’ to any comments that could be twisted or spun. That’s what they did. Brilliant, manipulative, and evil.

    In addition, you conspicuously fail to tell me whether you feel the Obama campaign was truthful or fair in these responses.

    You also seem to think that the TNR article used “Obama supporters” and not Obama or members of Obama’s campaign to back up their charges. I call foul here as the article uses Obama’s national co-chair Representative Jesse Jackson, Jr. (no tears for Katrina), Obama himself (Senator Clinton made an unfortunate remark, an ill-advised remark, about King and Lyndon Johnson), Obama campaign spokeswoman Candice Tolliver (is there a pattern here?), and Obama’s campaign manager David Plouffe (part of a disturbing pattern).

    So no, DanP, those are not ‘supporters’ – those are members of his campaign and Obama himself.

    To respond to your qualms about the media and your doubts that they played along or helped in this monumental campaign of racially charged lies:

    The article quite clearly singles out some of Obama’s supporters in the media that helped to propogate their lies. Eugene Robinson of the WashPost (Bradley effect) would be the biggest turd among them. Don’t forget Frank Rich at The New York Times (ghettoized cocaine user) along with Bob Herbert (Bill slept with more black women). Dowd and Herbert and Rich and the editorial page all jumped on the “Johnson had to pass civil rights legislation” bandwagon of lies.

    And further, regarding the media: “A few reporters, … had begun to notice that the Obama campaign was doing its utmost to fuel the racial flames. “There’s no question that there’s politics here at work too,” said Jonathan Martin of Politico. “It helps [Obama’s] campaign to… push these issues into the fore in a place like South Carolina.”

    Even Bill Moyers had to admit the whole Johnson-King thing was bullshit: “Among those dismayed by Obama’s tactics and his supporters’ was Bill Moyers. In a special segment on his weekly PBS broadcast in mid-January, Moyers, … demolished the charge that Clinton had warped history in order to race-bait Obama.”

    When you say that “an objective person would more easily make the argument that the race issue was more the fault of, and more importantly benefit to, Clinton. I say this because the rebound was a woman-as-victim backlash.”

    I snort and giggle (and almost guffawed). The Clinton campaign never had a need to race bait. They began the campaign with the support of African Americans and upper income progressives. It makes no sense whatsoever.

  • 1 – Her sense of entitlement. From the get-go, she really didn’t think it was going to be much of a competition. I say that doomed her more than anything else.

    2 – She did not understand how to use the internet or that it was even all that important. Barack’s site is cutting edge. Not only do they encourage donations (all the time! everyday I got an email from someone there), any individual can set up their own donation site via the main page which made for some really cool inner site competitions, and made it incredibly personal. So if you email all your cousins and friends they would be not only helping Barack, they’d be helping you get to your personal fund raising goals Like our dear dinosaur Mary there’s still many people out there who aren’t that savvy on the net and stubbornly refuse to learn. Her campaign, as much as it tried not to be, was definitely old school and never caught up.

    3 – Her grossly mistaken belief she had the African American vote sewn up.

  • Not only do they encourage donations (all the time! everyday I got an email from someone there),

    While Obama’s site may be better and even more robust in terms of maximizing what one can do online, in fairness you should know that Clinton did just fine on the portion I quoted above. I, too, got an e-mail pretty well every day about the campaign, often very clearly targeted and personalized, and almost always including an easy click-to-donate prompt.

    The problem was while I often enjoyed the updates, occassionally the “From” was from McAuliffe, which guaranteed it got trashed unopened.

  • You’re right Mark. It was an unfair comparison. I only read the blog. That was scary enough.

    😛

  • sbj (73): I’m glad I almost got a gaffaw from you. But who benefits from a racial/gender divide. 1) McCain 2) Clinton 3)Obama in that order. My conclusion is that the Clinton campaign had a few gaffes, but it was mostly the media that took advantage of it, specifically for the purpose of dividing the party. I would further argue that although Clinton did have a large advantage among African Americans, that was certainly dwindling before any of the so-called race-baiting began. Partly this is because of Oprah, and part was because Iowa made Obama seem plausible.

    For me it was more of an eye-roll on the examples of Obama (unfortunate remark?) and associates (pattern here?) comments. If these are the seeds of a conspiracy, well, I’m speechless.

  • For DanF at 54: Thanks for commenting. So, by your calculations, you can point to at least two places where a combined imprecision could account for +/-61k out of 36mill.

    Yes, I know, the delegates rule the day, the primary is over, Obama is the nominee. That’s not my point.

    This is an important factor in how the Obama 50% of the party views, treats and attempts to attract the Clinton 50%. I get it. You hate her. She’s a jerk. I picked up on that.

    I’m interested in seeing how Obama weighs his options and attempts to pull his party together. Mostly, I want to see how he acknowledges the sociological implications of the numeric reality produced by the primaries.

    Can we at least agree that it was pretty darn close? And maybe that gives you some insight into how a lot of Clinton supporters are seeing things right now. I think Robert McNamara said that Rule 1 of War is “Empathize with your adversary”

    None the less, thanks for the feedback, and no you were not pedantic. Compared to some of the things that have been written to me here, you were quite cordial. See, we can all get along.

  • Instead of attacking the messenger, why not try reading the article?

    I have. It’s laughable.


  • So, by your calculations, you can point to at least two places where a combined imprecision could account for +/-61k out of 36mill.
    […]
    This is an important factor in how the Obama 50% of the party views, treats and attempts to attract the Clinton 50%. I get it. You hate her. She’s a jerk. I picked up on that.

    No, you’re missing my point. The fact that a popular vote argument was even made introduces a margin of error where none existed before. My point was simply that there IS no margin of error in a caucus or a primary. There were clear winners and losers each contest and the sum of the contests can be measured. Popular vote can not be measured. To do so is introducing politics into a metric. This is a political contest after all, so I expect that, but I also expect the metric to carry the day (which it has).

    Clinton garnered an impressive number of delegates. It was a good campaign that would have been more than good-enough pre-Internet and against a candidate that didn’t spend twenty years in grass-roots organizing. If Obama had lost, I wouldn’t be calling for him on the ticket; I would have liked it, but I would have voted for Hillary regardless. I’m a Democrat for a reason and this election is too important. I have immediate family in Iraq. I have friends out of work. I have daughters that I don’t want to see fall victim to a hapless supreme court. Whether Hillary is on the ticket or not, there really is no other choice for Democrats. We need to work through our feelings and get on board or this country is screwed.

  • Dan F-

    I get your point about the numbers. My point is more political.

    You said, “If Obama had lost, I wouldn’t be calling for him on the ticket…”

    Honestly – and this is just me talking here – if it was this close, and the tables were turned, I’d be emailing hillaryclinton.com screaming, “Grab Obama!”

    Imagine 36 million Democrats instantly galvanized. You got your guy, we got ours. Imagine how much energy both sides have shown. How much passion and fight we’ve both got at our disposal. Now, imagine that force unified and focused on McCain.

    I hate to be cliche, but – I could believe in that!

    But then again, what do I know. I’m just a guy gabbing away on the internet.

  • Too bad Lloyd Bentsen is dead. He had the gravitas, the seniority, and the cool to be Obama’s VP.

  • When Sam Nunn “changed his mind” about gays in the military everyone says that he has had a change of heart. But because Hillary changed her mind on the war…like millions of us did! You call her a flip flopper. Seems hypocritical to me.

  • That’s some great critique there TR. I certainly believe you, what with all of the great counter-evidence you’ve provided to prove the author wrong!

    I hope no one here is so gullible as to find you believable.

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