‘You either win or you lose’

I’ve grown increasingly frustrated of late with what passes for John McCain’s “straight talk,” in large part because it usually doesn’t make a lot of sense. Consider his latest gem.

John McCain, who’s positioning himself as the GOP primary’s uber-hawk, today made it clear that there’s only one option he considers unacceptable for Iraq: compromise. The Philadelphia Evening Bulletin reports that McCain has now become the latest hawk to pre-emptively attack the forthcoming proposals of the Iraq Study Group, which is reported to favor withdrawing troops from Iraq.

McCain told conservative radio host Michael Smerconish that he’s sticking by his position that more troops need to be sent to Iraq, and rejected any notion of “compromise” that may be floated by the Baker-Hamilton group, elaborating as follows: “Well in war, my dear friends, there is no such thing as compromise; you either win or you lose.”

To be sure, this sounds like “get-tough” rhetoric that may appeal to neo-cons and a segment of the GOP base, but it’s completely nonsensical. In war, the U.S. has done plenty of compromising, and for that matter, plenty of conflicts have ended without a clear victor or loser.

Who, for example, won the Korean War? Who won Vietnam? Does anyone seriously believe Iraq will produce an eventual “winner”?

McCain not only considers himself a serious policy expert on foreign policy and military affairs, the media largely buys into this notion. It’s time to drop the charade and acknowledge McCain as the extremist he is.

The depth of his policy expertise is remarkably thin

In a small, mirror-paneled room guarded by a Secret Service agent and packed with some of the city’s wealthiest and most influential political donors, Mr. McCain got right to the point.

“One of the things I would do if I were President would be to sit the Shiites and the Sunnis down and say, ‘Stop the bullshit,'” said Mr. McCain, according to Shirley Cloyes DioGuardi, an invitee, and two other guests.

…and his favored policies are as reckless as they are irresponsible.

McCain, it turns out, wants to restore your faith in the U.S. government by any means necessary, even if that requires thousands of more military deaths, national service for civilians and federal micromanaging of innumerable private transactions. He’ll kick down the doors of boardroom and bedroom, mixing Democrats’ nanny-state regulations with the GOP’s red-meat paternalism in a dangerous brew of government activism.

….If his issues line up with yours, and if you’re not overly concerned by an activist federal government, McCain can be a great and sympathetic ally. But chances are he will eventually see a grave national threat in what you consider harmless, or he’ll prescribe a remedy that you consider unconscionable. Nowhere is that more evident than in his ideas about the Iraq war.

McCain has been banging the drum from nearly Day One to put more boots on the ground in Iraq. “There are a lot of things that we can do to salvage this,” he said on “Meet the Press” on Nov. 12, “but they all require the presence of additional troops.” McCain is more inclined to start wars and increase troop levels than George W. Bush or Bill Clinton. He has supported every U.S. military intervention of the last two decades, urged both presidents to rattle their sabers louder over North Korea and Iran, lamented the Pentagon’s failure to intervene in Darfur and Rwanda and supported a general policy of “rogue state rollback.”

In 2000, Bush at least pretended to prefer a foreign policy based on “humility.” With McCain, there’s no pretense of modesty or nod to compromise.

As Digby put it, “If people like what Bush has been doing these past six years, they’re gonna love McCain.”

“Well in war, my dear friends, there is no such thing as compromise; you either win or you lose.”

Or you crash your jet, survive a POW camp and turn into an insufferable poseur.

“One of the things I would do if I were President would be to sit the Shiites and the Sunnis down and say, ‘Stop the bullshit,’”

!! Isn’t this almost word for word what Bush said during a summit meeting something about telling Annan to tell someone else to “Stop the bullshit”? He’s not just a wobbly little coward he’s plagarizing the biggest idiot on the planet.

Tinfoil hat moment: McCain is being paid (a lot) to distract us from ShrubCo by being a raging arsehole. It may sound crazy but that’s the only way his drivel makes sense.

  • It’s sort of like McCain is counting on the electorate confusing the outward, immediate effects on them of great leadership with the real thing. Consider a Washington, a Caesar, some author’s conception of King Arthur. They were unpredictable, yet at the very same time somehow, resolute. They were men of deep and unwavering principle in a few specific ways, but more ruthless than anyone in most other situations. And they completely and totally trashed the conventional wisdom and defied all expectations.

    Either McCain has confused just being all-around erratic and adhering zealously to a random and contradictory set of principles with actual leadership, or he’s hoping voters will.

  • Well, CB, I agree with your points about McCain the uncompromising blowhard–Mr. Flipflop, kiss ass, anything-to-get elected-this-time candidate. Hopefully, he will make his positions clear to the American people so they will know why they don’t want to vote for him. I’m sure “Stop the bullshit” will bring about a revelation to the factions in Iraq.

    Meanwhile, we do know who won the war in Vietnam…clearly, the North Vietnamese.

  • Here it is, from the open mic session during the G-8 summit:

    Bush speaking to Blair: ‘See, the irony is that what they need to do is to get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit, and it’s over.

    (I’ve already said I’m a research geek. There is no need to comment on my geekiness.)

  • I honestly didn’t know the Evening Bulletin had been revived. Brings back nostalgic memories of my Dad buying his copy at Reading Terminal and doing the crossword on the train before bestowing it (Peanuts, Doonesbury, late sports news, etc) on us waiting kids before dinnertime …

  • I’ll be glad when people quit using the words McCain and serious in the same sentence, unless it’s used as an adverb such as “seriously off-base” or “seriously unhinged.”

    His proposals frequently smack of unseriousness, like sitting Sunnis and Shiites down in a room and telling them to cut the BS. That idea is the BS. Or sending more troops that we don’t have into a conflict that has no strategy. What does he think he would do with those troops is something he hasn’t mentioned. Rogue state rollback? If the axis of evil made our foreign relations problems as bad as they are, I’d hate to see his blacklist of the rogue states we are somehow going to roll back. How many more dads will McCain get to meet whose sons have blown off legs due to his way of thinking?

    Another Republican who has no diplomatic skills whatsoever and who figures riding through the world like a cowboy on too much Viagra is foreign policy is exactly what this nation doesn’t need.

  • And North Korea still exists, despite sanctions and no iPods!

    McCain panders to everyone thus representing no one. It won’t take Karl Rove this 2008 election cycle to ruin his chances at getting the Republican nomination (re: South Carolina).

  • I wish someone would ask that warmonger why we lost the Vietnam war. I’ll bet he’s got a hilarious answer to that question too.

    If McCain wants to send more troops to Iraq, how about he asks his own state how they feel about that? They probably have some “straight talk” for him to mull over.

  • I think if would have been fairer to McCain and Matt Welch if you had quoted this paragraph:

    ‘”Our greatness,” he wrote in “Worth the Fighting For,” “depends upon our patriotism, and our patriotism is hardly encouraged when we cannot take pride in the highest public institutions.” So, because steroids might be damaging the faith of young baseball fans, drug testing becomes a “transcendent issue,” requiring threats of federal intervention unless pro sports leagues shape up. Hollywood’s voluntary movie-rating system? A “smoke screen to provide cover for immoral and unconscionable business practices.” Ultimate Fighting on Indian reservations? “Barbaric” and worthy of government pressure on cable TV companies. Negative political ads by citizen groups? They “do little to further beneficial debate and healthy political dialogue” and so must be banned for 60 days before an election if they mention a candidate by name.’

    Welch manages to ignore the hearings McCain held on “Airline Passenger Rights” at a time when airlines were routinely losing luggage, cancelling and delaying flights and generally shafting the flying public. Yet somehow no law was enacted or even voted on. All that happened is that the airlines ponied up a quarter of a million dollars in campaign contributions to members of McCain’s committee.

    Invasive government anti-liberitarianism paternalism? Or just a means of holding people up for money?

    Either way, he’s not right for America.

  • “I wish someone would ask that warmonger why we lost the Vietnam war. I’ll bet he’s got a hilarious answer to that question too.” – RacerX

    The answer is he got shot down.

    Which means either:

    1) without him in the war America didn’t have the strength to win,
    or
    2) with him in Hanoi the war became all about getting him and the other prisoners out and not about winning.

  • For anyone who cared to look, McCain has always been in bed with the far right while wearing an “I’m a straight-talkin’ moderate” sandwich board. Even so, I’m not sure that the opinion pieces cited in this post are an accurate reflection of McCain’s view of the war. Although a McCain presidency would be dismaying (heart-breaking, more like it), Digby’s quote makes me come to a reluctant defense of McCain with about the only semi-positive statement I could make about him: McCain is no George Bush. In any event, today’s George Will column (yeah, I know) made it seem that McCain, while obviously pandering to the looney hawks, had left himself a good deal of wiggle room. Just as interesting, Mr. Will is also starting to sound like a defeatocrat, himself. Small favors.

  • BC —

    Regarding the “resurrected” Evening Bulletin: It’s a shadow revival by a group of right-wingers in Philadelphia (in name only). Although it’s rag, I glad that its ideology is quite clear. What this country needs are more newspapers with well-defined, clear ideology and with a non-stealth agenda.

  • unfit for command – are you kidding me?

    No compromise with who- the people who think we should keep our soldiers where they’re getting shot at and they won’t be able to lastingly stabilize anything whether they’re there 10 yrs or 20 yrs- just complete appeasement?

    Sounds spineless if you ask me.

  • Now we’re starting to see what his fellow Naval aviators saw 45 years ago: John McCain is a lightweight (and talentless moron who wasn’t particularly good as a “stick”) who lived then off the reputations of his father and grandfather – both great Navy Admirals – though he wasn’t in the same league with either and would likely have never gotten past LCDR had he not been shot down and automatically promoted while sitting in prison.

    Today he lives off the inability of intellectual flyweights to realize he’s a political lightweight (and moronic idiot).

  • “One of the things I would do if I were President would be to sit the Shiites and the Sunnis down and say, ‘Stop the bullshit,’”

    Sunni/Shiite response: “Or,….what?”

  • Everyone who feels secure that their Democratic choice will prevail in their states primary, should register independent and vote AGAINST McCain inthe the Republican Primary.

    If the American People are silly enough to fall for the FRAUD of GW Bush twice then they would be silly enough to fall for the Fraud of J McCain.

    It is most important that his name NOT BE on the General Election Ballot.

  • That’s a startingly profound statement, Senator McCain. And most helpful, too…

  • Awesome. The blog ate my comment. Grrr….

    Have I missed the boat? Why all the hate for McCain? His comment sounds more like him being a politician who’s learned he needs a soundbite that plays well with the conservatives than anything from an extremist. It sounds exactly like a sound bite. But what’s to call him an extremist? Weren’t we mocking Bush and Rumsfeld for years for ignoring military men like Shinseki for recommending the same thing McCain wants to do? Do people think McCain wants to reinstate the draft or something?

    It is well known by pollsters that Hillary Clinton has high negatives, and this often is used to justify saying she won’t be able to run for President. But I’ve never understood why people hate Hillary so much. There’s so much foulmouthing her, and namecalling, it seems to have gone beyond matters of substances and it’s so vitriolic. I strongly suspect there never was any substance behind it in the first place. I worry we are falling victim to the same effect with McCain. Assassinating a politician we simply don’t like because, well, we don’t have any good reason not to like him. Other politicians certainly well deserve this treatment, and it’s plain to see because the evidentiary reasons are cited constantly, IE Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney. But I don’t understand what McCain did to deserve similar treatment. (Or Hillary Clinton.)

  • “Weren’t we mocking Bush and Rumsfeld for years for ignoring military men like Shinseki for recommending the same thing McCain wants to do? Do people think McCain wants to reinstate the draft or something?” – Rian M.

    Shinseki told us we needed 200,000 more troops from the beginning.

    McCain says we need 20,000 more troops right now. Notice the missing zero?

    Got to agree on the Hillary point. Though I think she should get off her ass and FLY to Iowa to talk to people.

  • There are good points in the article. I would like to supplement them with some information:

    I am a 2 tour Vietnam Veteran who recently retired after 36 years of working in the Defense Industrial Complex on many of the weapons systems being used by our forces as we speak.

    If you are interested in a view of the inside of the Pentagon procurement process from Vietnam to Iraq please check the posting at my blog entitled, “Odyssey of Armements”

    http://www.rosecoveredglasses.blogspot.com

    The Pentagon is a giant,incredibly complex establishment,budgeted in excess of $500B per year. The Rumsfelds, the Adminisitrations and the Congressmen come and go but the real machinery of policy and procurement keeps grinding away, presenting the politicos who arrive with detail and alternatives slanted to perpetuate itself.

    How can any newcomer, be he a President, a Congressman or even the Sec. Def. to be – Mr. Gates- understand such complexity, particulary if heretofore he has not had the clearance to get the full details?

    Answer- he can’t. Therefor he accepts the alternatives provided by the career establishment that never goes away and he hopes he makes the right choices. Or he is influenced by a lobbyist or two representing companies in his district or special interest groups.

    From a practical standpoint, policy and war decisions are made far below the levels of the talking heads who take the heat or the credit for the results.

    This situation is unfortunate but it is ablsolute fact. Take it from one who has been to war and worked in the establishment.

    This giant policy making and war machine will eventually come apart and have to be put back together to operate smaller, leaner and on less fuel. But that won’t happen unitil it hits a brick wall at high speed.

    We will then have to run a Volkswagon instead of a Caddy and get along somehow. We better start practicing now and get off our high horse. Our golden aura in the world is beginning to dull from arrogance.

  • The Rumsfelds, the Adminisitrations and the Congressmen come and go but the real machinery of policy and procurement keeps grinding away, presenting the politicos who arrive with detail and alternatives slanted to perpetuate itself. — Ken Larson, @ 23

    I’m glad Ken has said it, because I wonder how many people are not at all aware of this… I was about 12 and still in Poland, when my Mother explained those “facts of life”. What she used as illustration was that, whether it was answering to the tsar or to Lenin, the basic “opression mechanism” (police, spies, army) and its cogs were the same. Esentially, it’s the labels that change; the product itself doesn’t, or not much, no matter that it’s touted as “new! improved!”.

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